March 19, 1954

LIB

George Prudham (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys)

Liberal

Hon. George Prudham (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys):

Before we deal with the items of the estimates I should like to put on record a few statistics and a general review of the mineral industry in Canada. I shall do this rather fully because our "summary of activities", the report distributed by the department to members of parliament each year, is not yet available from the printers.

This house has listened for many days this session to the disciples of blue ruin, predicting a depressing future for this country, growing unemployment and general decline. Mr. Chairman, we in Canada need never look back if we rise to the challenge of applying the great sources of energy we possess to the development of our national industrial structure. Nowhere else in the world today do 15 million people in one nation possess the heritage that is the lot of the Canadian people.

Not only does this nation have a remarkable heritage of mineral wealth but it also has proven sources of energy supply required to develop our natural resources. Our oil, natural gas, coal and electricity and in coming years perhaps atomic energy, are the keys to the unlocking of our great storehouse of minerals and our natural resources generally. One task facing us today is to develop these sources of energy and their distribution to areas of Canada where the energy can be most effectively used.

Mining in Canada in 1953 gave every evidence of a flourishing industry. Despite lower base metal prices, and labour disputes in two of the country's biggest camps, a new

Supply-Mines and Technical Surveys high of $1,331 million was recorded in the value of mineral output, an increase of $46 million over 1952 and almost three times that of a decade ago. Over 128,500 men were employed in mines and quarries in 1953 at wages and salaries totalling $435 million.

Crude petroleum with an output valued at $198 million became Canada's No. 1 mineral, replacing gold which, after 25 years as the leading mineral, dropped to fourth place with a production valued at $139 million. Nickel at $161 million was second and copper at $151 million was third.

The sharp decline in lead and zinc prices brought about the closing down of several marginal producers particularly in British Columbia, and a substantial cutback in the production of zinc by Canada's largest producer.

As Canada is the leading exporter of the principal non-ferrous base metals much depends upon the export market particularly in United States. During the past year the question of tariffs on imports of base metals into United States has been widely discussed in that country. Canada has participated in some of these discussions, and it is hoped that a decision favourable to our base metal industry will be arrived at soon.

The outstanding feature of the year in the Canadian mineral industry, however, was the intensive and widespread exploratory and development activity that was carried out in the territories and in every province except Prince Edward Island. This activity resulted in, among other things, the bringing in of such new mines as the Eldorado Mining and Refining ace-fay uranium property in the Beaverlodge area of northern Saskatchewan, the Lynn Lake nickel-copper property in northern Manitoba, the Cassiar asbestos property in northern British Columbia and a copper-gold property in the Chibougamau area of Quebec, the first producer in that area. Much progress was made in the several large-scale projects under way such as that of Quebec-Labrador iron ore field into which the 360-mile railway has been virtually completed and from which ore is expected to be shipped by late summer, and at the Gaspe copper deposits which are to be brought in late this year.

An idea of the intensity of exploration, which proved greater in 1953 than in any other year in the history of Canadian mining, may be had from the preliminary estimate of over 130,000 claims staked during the year. This is a 216 per cent increase over 1952. The outstanding example was in New Brunswick, the scene of the Bathurst find, where some 41,000 claims were staked in 1953 compared with only 1,600 in 1952.

3176 HOUSE OF

Supply-Mines and Technical Surveys

Oil, natural gas, iron ore and uranium proved to be the major newsmakers in 1953. Oil production rose to 81 million barrels, compared with 61 million barrels in 1952. The industry spent some $365 million in the search for oil and discovered light crude oil in Saskatchewan and Manitoba, and new major fields in Alberta.

The development of the petroleum and natural gas resources in western Canada in the last seven years has been so spectacular that they could not have been foreseen by even the most optimistic enthusiast. The initial stages caught the attention of the public and made headlines in the press, so that it seemed to many that suddenly, without preparation, great resources had been uncovered. This is not so. Back of these discoveries are years of patient toil on the part of many scientists and engineers. Through the years they have provided the fundamental knowledge on which the recent development is based.

The land subdivision of the early settlement years, done by the dominion land surveyors, together with the precise level and triangulation surveys of the geodetic survey, were the foundation in western Canada for the base maps formerly prepared under the department of the interior of the federal government, then under the geological survey, and now under the surveys and mapping branch of mines and technical surveys. Without adequate maps no resource development is possible in a systematic manner because each base map becomes the working tool of the geologists and geophysicists, under whose direction and guidance most exploratory programs are planned and carried out.

The foundations in the preparatory work for the successful development of petroleum and natural gas were laid by geologists of the geological survey of Canada. The names of Dawson, McConnell, Dowling and many others are famous in the interpretation of the geological features of western Canada. The reports of these men-the great geological pioneers of the plains, foothills and mountains-are still in great demand because of their clear exposition of the regional geological features based on their accurate observations.

Since about the beginning of this century the geological survey of Canada has each year had several parties in western Canada mapping geological features. The younger men of today on our staff are performing work just as important as the pioneers of yesterday, even though it is mostly of a more detailed nature. There now is an exceedingly

large amount of new information made available daily from the drilling of wells. The collection of this is a tremendous task for which we have a small staff in our Calgary office who, even though they cannot hope to keep pace in the complete correlation of all the data, are assisting in the development by making it available for the use of other geologists in the employ of the various oil companies.

It would be difficult to assess the value of this work. But certainly the combined efforts, not only of those in private enterprise, but also those in the employ of the various provincial governments of western Canada, as well as the federal government, are such that in relation to oil and gas discoveries the major problems have now suddenly become those of marketing, because of the great volume of riches that has been so rapidly revealed.

To summarize briefly the more recent developments is almost impossible because of the magnitude and significance of the results. For a time in the early part of 1953, it appeared that there would be a slackening in the discovery rate, but by the end of the year some really remarkable discoveries had been made. Among these may be cited the Roselea field in Manitoba, the Smiley field in Saskatchewan, and the Pembina and Sturgeon Lake fields in Alberta. New gas developments in northeast British Columbia assure more than adequate reserves for the West-coast Transmission line now planned to Vancouver and the Pacific northwest united states.

Of all the fields, Pembina is beyond doubt the largest, and recent estimates have placed the reserves at 800 million to 950 million barrels in this one field alone, with a possibility that the number of wells that ultimately will be drilled on 80 acre spacing will be equal in number to the 4,600 presently producing oil wells in the whole of Alberta. Recently in one week alone there were seven new discoveries of oil and gas in western Canada of which two were in Manitoba, one in Saskatchewan, three in Alberta, and one in British Columbia.

Although it is too early to assess the complete value of these, the one in Saskatchewan in the Estevan area is of very great importance in that the well yielded not only large volumes of gas but, in addition, a high volume of light crude oil. One of the Alberta discoveries in the area west and north of Didsbury also seems to be highly important, showing a thick porous section in the Missis-sippian from which the oil and gas in Turner valley was produced.

As far as the gas reserves are concerned, in the last year these have been increasing at an unprecedented rate and there is so much now beyond what Alberta can use in the next 30 years that there appears little doubt adequate reserves will be provided for the Trans-Canada gas line by the Alberta petroleum and natural gas conservation board.

As is well known, oil pipe lines have been built both east and west from Alberta. There is the Interprovincial pipe line, first built to Superior, Wisconsin, at the head of the great lakes, and last summer extended as a 30-inch line capable of carrying 300,000 barrels a day to Sarnia in southwestern Ontario. Then there is the Trans Mountain pipe line, built from Edmonton to Vancouver, which will be extended to supply refineries in the state of Washington. If present plans for gas pipe lines are fulfilled, as seems now probable, the next two or three years should witness a very large pipe line building program, with gas eventually moving eastward from southern Alberta to supply central Canada, and gas moving from the Peace river area to supply Vancouver and the Pacific coast area of United States.

I wish now, Mr. Chairman, to say something on the activities of the metal mining industry.

Iron ore production showed an increase of over one million short tons over 1952 to a total of 6,501,000 tons as a result of the expansion under way at properties in northwestern Ontario, Newfoundland and British Columbia. The steady growth of the industry in these provinces, and particularly in northwestern Ontario, is expected to raise production this year to well over the seven million ton mark. This is without the addition of output from the Knob Lake iron ore field in Quebec-Labrador and the Marmora property in southeastern Ontario, both of which are expected to enter production later this year.

Two areas shared the spotlight in the search for and development of uranium properties. The Beaverlodge area of northern Saskatchewan proved a hive of activity with several companies carrying out pre-production development work on their properties. Feverish staking in the district of Algoma in northern Ontario followed a uranium strike near Blind River, about halfway between Sudbury and Sault Ste. Marie, and thousands of claims were staked during the latter half of 1953, and diamond drilling and surface development work is under way.

A huge development program involving hundreds of millions of dollars is now under way to expand nickel-producing facilities in the Sudbury area from which comes 85 per cent of the world output of nickel. In

19, 1954 3177

Supply-Mines and Technical Surveys addition to the expansion under way by the two major producers, three new companies entered production in the area in 1953. Output increased 6-8 million pounds over 1952 to a total of 287-9 million pounds, and this is expected to reach 320 million pounds this year. This will include production from the Lynn Lake nickel-copper mine in northern Manitoba.

These are only a few of the highlights of Canadian mining in 1953 but they are indicative of an industry that is rapidly going places. Such growth, as is to be expected, has been attended by many and varied problems in mining and metallurgy, which in turn have led to considerable increase in the demands made upon the services available in the Department of Mines and Technical Surveys. These services range from topographical and geological surveys to metallurgical assistance in the extraction of metals and minerals from ores, and they include research into the preparation, bene-ficiation and utilization of the products of the Canadian mining and metal industries.

By steadily expanding its services the department is making every effort to keep pace with the increasingly heavy demands made upon it by a rapidly growing industry. As a consequence, it has been necessary to plan for new laboratory construction; and we hope that construction will start soon. This includes a building that will provide accommodation for mines branch research work on uranium ores and minerals, for its chemical laboratories and for offices for its administrative staff. Also a new building is needed in which to house the geological survey. The construction of a geophysical laboratory will shortly be started to provide space for three divisions of the dominion observatory.

The department comprises five branches: the surveys and mapping branch, the geological survey of Canada, the mines branch, the dominion observatories and the geographical branch.

The surveys and mapping branch produces the maps, aeronautical charts and hydrographic charts necessary for the development and administration of the country and for its defence. The continuing high rate of natural resources development, with no slackening in defence requirements, caused a strong demand for new maps and charts. Including geological maps, almost one million maps and charts were distributed during 1953.

The surveys and mapping branch placed 70 parties in the field in 1953 to carry out geodetic, topographic and legal surveys work. Approximately the same number will be

3178 HOUSE OF

Supply-Mines and Technical Surveys sent into the field in 1954. In addition to the regular parties, winter field parties are being used to excellent advantage as they can penetrate into areas which are practically inaccessible during any other season of the year.

In co-operation with the Royal Canadian Air Force, the national research council and the meteorological service of the Department of Transport, the branch continued to cover the far north with shoran trilateration, a new electronic method of measuring long distances on the earth's surface, which permits the extension of control into remote areas much more speedily than by conventional methods of triangulation. Since 1948 when this method was first put into use, the sparsely settled area south of the Arctic archipelago, with the exception of Yukon, has been fairly well covered with shoran trilateration.

It is hoped that this method can be extended, in the coming years, with the assistance of the R.C.A.F., to bridge across from the mainland to cover the southern part of the Arctic archipelago. Some triangulation and precise levelling has been and will continue to be done by the geodetic survey for the St. Lawrence seaway project, and triangulation work will include the area of the Hamilton river on the coast of Labrador.

Using helicopters the topographic survey did topographical mapping over 20,740 square miles of territory in northern Quebec-Labrador in the important mineralized region between Knob Lake and Fort Chimo, about 20 miles south of Ungava bay. Two other helicopter-supported operations are planned for next summer. One of these will operate in the Hamilton river watershed and will assist in providing control data for assessment of power development possibilities along that river and particularly at Grand falls.

A little more work by the topographic survey this coming summer in Newfoundland will complete the horizontal and vertical controls needed to map the province. It is hoped that the island portion of Newfoundland will be fully mapped at the one-mile scale within the next two or three years.

The house will be asked to vote the sum of $1,500,000 for the construction of a new hydrographic ship to ply in northern waters. A great amount of work remains to be done to chart our Arctic seas. As a matter of fact, it will go on for perhaps a hundred years. New and forthcoming mining developments in northern Canada require the charting of new sea routes and of approaches to potential

harbour sites, particularly in Ungava bay, where vast reserves of iron ore have been discovered.

The geological survey of Canada investigates and studies the geology of Canada, thereby assisting in the search for and development of mineral deposits. It also studies ground water supplies, makes soil surveys and investigates bedrock conditions relative to construction project problems. In 1953 it had 79 parties in the field and it expects to send probably 87 parties into the field in 1954.

The possibility that oil may exist in commercial quantities in the northwestern Arctic islands came to light as a result of the geological survey's field work in 1953 on a prominent circular structure on Ellef Ringnes island. Air photographs have revealed several such structures on these islands. These structures appear to be similar to the salt domes in the oil fields of Texas and Louisiana, many of which have formed traps for highly productive oil pools.

In 1954, it is proposed to undertake an airborne geological reconnaissance survey in the area lying west of Hudson bay and east of Great Slave lake. This survey is identified as "Operation Baker" and is an extension of "Operation Keewatin" which was conducted in the same general area in 1952. Plans are being made for another extension- "Operation Thelon" for 1955. The survey thus hopes to map the entire area between latitudes 60 and 65 and between Hudson bay and Great Slave lake by the end of 1955.

The office maintained by the geological survey of Canada in Calgary, Alberta, gave special attention to the study of oil and gas structures in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. In its office at Sydney, Nova Scotia, the survey continued to make a microscopic study of coal particularly for correlation of coal seams. These two offices in Calgary and Sydney will continue their work throughout the coming fiscal year; also the offices in Vancouver and Yellowknife will continue to serve the public. The intensive interest in prospecting for uranium resulted in the radiometric assay of approximately 1,200 samples by the radioactivity resources division of the geological survey. The division revised and published a second edition of 5,000 copies of the handbook, "Prospecting for Uranium in Canada". It is expected that this division will be even busier in the coming year with the intensified search for and discovery of uranium deposits.

An airborne aeromagnetic survey will be conducted next summer in that region north of Beaverlodge and extending into the North-

west Territories, in the hope of delimiting the northward extent of the Beaverlodge uranium-bearing geological formations.

The activities of our mines branch are directly concerned with the technological problems of the mining and metal industry and the branch maintains well equipped laboratories for tests, investigative work and research on these problems in the buildings down on Booth street. If any hon. members have the spare time, we would be very pleased to have them go down there and see what is being done.

The following are some of the highlights of mines branch activities during 1953. Forty-four reports were made to organizations submitting bulk ore samples for testing. Those on the treatment of ores from new properties included, when requested, recommendations for the design of flow sheets for the milling plants. A number of shipments were received from operating properties, and reports on these included recommendations for improving the treatment of the ores and reducing operating costs. Work in 1954 will include studies on the treatment of the complex New Brunswick ores of the Bathurst area.

Research was continued with encouraging results on the baffling problem of producing titanium metal of high purity at costs which would permit its wider use in industry. The development of an efficient economic process would mean that the large deposits of ilme-nite at Allard Lake in Quebec would become an important source of the metal. This research will be continued in 1954.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MINES AND TECHNICAL SURVEYS
Permalink
SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. Blackmore:

I wonder whether the minister would read a little more slowly. It is rather difficult for us to follow what he is saying.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MINES AND TECHNICAL SURVEYS
Permalink
LIB

George Prudham (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys)

Liberal

Mr. Prudham:

The intensive development of Canada's iron ore deposits brought many requests for assistance, including test work on sintering and other beneficiating processes to produce marketable products.

There was a heavy demand for investigations into the metallurgical treatment of radioactive ores. Assistance included laboratory work on mineral samples to provide preliminary information on the concentration and extraction of uranium, and comprehensive investigations including pilot plant operations to work out in detail the treatment suited to particular ores.

Moneys have been provided in the public works estimates for the construction of a building to house the radioactivity division of the mines branch. With a greater number of properties nearing the stage of production the load of work on this division to investigate the treatment of ores is constantly increasing.

19, 1954 3179

Supply-Mines and Technical Surveys

Branch engineers have and will continue to carry out analyses, studies and tests of samples of kyanite from the Mattawa area in northern Ontario, and milling investigations on the kyanite from deposits near Sudbury, Ontario, and from the Big Bend area of the Columbia river, British Columbia. The eventual development of these deposits would make Canada independent of present foreign sources and provide the basis of new and greatly expanded refractory and ceramic industries in Canada.

Many projects are conducted by the mines branch at the request of National Defence and for the defence research board: high temperature alloys, special steels for aircraft use, welding techniques, radiographic methods for inspection of castings and many others. Initiated as defence projects, they soon become invaluable in their application to civilian use and thus two purposes are served.

As I announced earlier, commendable progress has been made in the Mordell project where, in association with McGill University, a gas turbine has been built to use low-grade coal as a fuel. This turbine would find application in locomotives and as a small stationary power plant. Test runs have proven successful to date and experimental and performance tests will continue to be made for a year or two yet, until its full characteristics have been established and every avenue explored for possible improvement to its design and functioning. A sum of $100,000 is included in the estimates this year. We expect to ask for another $100,000 next year to complete the experimental and development work.

The work of the dominion observatories is organized in two main centres, the dominion observatory at Ottawa and the dominion astrophysical observatory at Victoria, British Columbia. The centre at Ottawa does research in astronomy and geophysics, the fields covered being positional astronomy, stellar physics, terrestrial magnetism, gravity and seismology. The work at Victoria is devoted mainly to research in astrophysics and to a small but increasingly important extent in seismology.

Since the installation in 1951 of a photographic telescope for the more accurate determination of time by astronomical methods, the dominion observatory has been emphasizing the more effective distribution of time throughout the country by radio methods. A new and more powerful transmitter was installed in 1953 for the shortwave radio transmission of time signals. During the new fiscal year it is intended further to improve the radio service by the installation of so-called speaking clocks

3180 HOUSE OF

Supply-Mines and Technical Surveys which will broadcast a voice announcement of the time each minute throughout the 24 hours of the day.

Studies of the upper atmosphere of the earth by spectroscopic methods and by the observation of meteors will be continued during the present year. The two powerful photographic telescopes at Meanook and Newbrook, Alberta, which have been established for the photographic triangulation of meteors, are expected to be in routine operation throughout the year. Their purpose is to determine the velocities of meteors entering the earth's atmosphere and the extent to which these velocities are diminished by friction with the air at heights of 60 miles above the earth.

Another project of the observatory is the study of craters found on the earth's surface of form very similar to those appearing on the moon. Two of these have recently been found in Canada, one at Brent, Ontario and one in northern Ungava in Quebec. These newly discovered craters are from two to three miles in diameter and it is generally believed that they are due to the impact of large meteorites. Since the Canadian shield is an area which has remained geologically undisturbed for a long time it may reasonably be expected that it will contain many similar formations. Several circular features from a few miles to some tens of miles in diameter have been noted on maps and aerial photographs which may be due to the same cause. One such feature located in northern Quebec will be intensively studied by gravity, seismic and magnetic methods during the coming year.

In the past the magnetic mapping of Canada for navigation purposes and the provision of magnetic maps of general character on which detailed mineral exploration surveys could be based have been handicapped by the great size of the country, the inaccessibility of the Arctic areas and the lack of any equipment capable of making observations over the ocean. Many of these difficulties have been overcome by the completion in 1953 of a gyro-stabilized magnetometer designed to give both the direction and the strength of the magnetic field from an aircraft. During the present year it is proposed to use this instrument, the first gyro-stabilized magnetometer to be built in any country, to map the ocean approaches to eastern Canada, together with portions of the eastern Arctic and possibly also to make a flight to England to study the character of the magnetic field over the North Atlantic.

In the field of seismology, the Canadian network of 10 seismic stations will be maintained. Further attention will be given to

the question of earthquake hazards in the new industrial regions of the west coast. The question of the character of the earth's crust under the Canadian shield will be studied with new and more powerful equipment. In order to study rock layers of several miles in thickness by explosion methods the older procedure of having an array of seismometers connected to a common recorder by wires has proved inadequate. New equipment now under construction will make possible an array of detecting instruments 20 to 30 miles in length transmitting seismic impulses to a central recorder by shortwave radio. This instrument was developed by one of our own departmental scientists.

The geographical branch makes regional and systematic studies of Canadian geography. These studies range from physical geographic studies of far northern regions to land use surveys and to urban surveys for civil defence. The branch played a major role in a study of northeast Newfoundland small coastal settlements and the possibility of grouping these many small settlements into fewer and larger units. This study will extend into the year 1954-55.

The branch continued to map ice conditions in portions of the gulf of St. Lawrence, in Hamilton inlet on the cost of Labrador, and in Ungava bay and Hudson strait, where there is need for information on the exact geographical limits of ice-free water during the critical break-up in the gulf of St. Lawrence. A similar report, with maps, was issued to use at a special conference of the iron mining and shipping companies interested in access to the recently discovered iron ore deposits west of Ungava bay.

Urban surveys were conducted at Winnipeg, Sault Ste. Marie and Montreal at the request of the civil defence division, Department of National Health and Welfare. Similar surveys have already been made in Toronto, Hamilton, London, Windsor, Saint John, and Halifax. More of these surveys will continue next summer in Montreal, Winnipeg and Halifax. Work continues on the atlas of Canada and it is expected to be completed in 1955.

I have endeavoured, Mr. Chairman, to highlight certain projects and activities of the department. I know that the members of the house will find much of this information useful, and I am sure that they will wish further information when we get to the individual items. I know that everyone shares my satisfaction in the prosperity which the mineral industry is undergoing, and will join with me in a word of praise to the rugged

Supply-Mines and Technical Surveys

individualists who are, through their initiative and skill and hard work, making these developments possible. I have not made any mention of the coal industry. I would prefer if the debate on the coal industry and the problems related to it could be delayed until the coal board estimates are before the house, which I hope will be within a few weeks.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MINES AND TECHNICAL SURVEYS
Permalink
PC

Agar Rodney Adamson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Adamson:

After listening to the detailed report by the minister, Mr. Chairman, and, unfortunately, having read only the report for the previous year, I believe one could say to one's self, "lucky, lucky Canadians." I have practised my profession practically all over the world, with the exception of east Asia. When the minister of mines in any country can bring down a report of such developments as we have seen take place in the short span of one year, that country is indeed fortunate.

I realize that possibly it is wise in a political discussion to try to prove that we are perhaps not as fortunate as we are. In so far as this department is concerned, I disagree with that philosophy. Without question, we in Canada are the luckiest people in the world so far as our natural resources are concerned. I hope that no member in this house and I hope that no Canadian, will ever forget that, because upon that depends our essential prosperity.

The next point I wish to mention with regard to this department is that I want to pay tribute to the working force of the department, the engineers, the geologists, the metallurgists and the scientists generally who have made this development possible. A lot of people seem to think that you go out and discover oil wells or ore bodies or when you have discovered the oil well or the ore body, the method of milling and refining or separating the metal from the rock is a comparatively simple matter. May I say that without the skilled help of the technical people in this department, a great deal of this amazing development would have been quite impossible.

I would say that the majority of these devoted scientists who are working for Canada are working for a monetary return well below that which they could demand in private industry. I am not going into detail or to mention any names, but on frequent occasions I have known people who have been offered by private industry a multiple of the salary they were getting with the department, but who have refused it and remained in the service of Canada. This is something for which we and the Canadian

people must at all times be extremely grateful. Without these devoted servants, a great deal of this development would not be possible.

I should like now to mention the working force in the industry. While the minister was reading his report, I made a little calculation. The working force in the mineral industry in Canada amounts to 128,500. It is generally estimated that for every man working in the mineral industry there are four others dependent on that industry. The mineral industry is, therefore, responsible for no less than 514,000 other jobs, directly. I believe the department of mines in the United States has a further figure showing that those indirectly dependent upon the minerals industry are at a ratio of eleven to one. So that no less than approximately 1,400,000 of the total working force in Canada are indirectly responsible to the mineral industry. The wages paid to those men amounted to $435 million, which works out to an average annual wage of no less than $3,400-figuring to the closest hundred dollars.

I mention this because here is an industry in which those engaged in it are, in the majority of cases, receiving annual wages away above the normal in Canada. That is something I suggest we should take into consideration. Some of these people may be directors or engineers, but their number would be small compared with the remaining workers. So that the figure of $3,400 is, I think, a reasonably accurate one.

The other day, in discussing the housing legislation, we were worried because so many of the working force in Canada are receiving wages less than the minimum required to participate in the benefits of that legislation. Here we are discussing an industry the average wage in which is at least $500 above the minimum required to participate in the legislation passed last week. I mention that only to indicate what the industry means to Canada.

I come to my next point which, I suggest, is also significant. I refer to the cost of the department expressed as a percentage of the value of total mineral production. That total mineral production last year of $1,331 million was up $46 million from the previous year which, in turn, was up $40 million from the year preceding. The cost of the department, less $15 million for the Emergency Gold Mining Assistance Act, and the coal board which cannot be charged legitimately as an expense against the department, amounted to $16 -6 million. In other words, in the last year the ratio of the cost of the department to the value of total mineral production was 1-23 per cent.

3182 HOUSE OF

Supply-Mines and Technical Surveys

I mention that figure merely to emphasize the efficient work being done by the engineers and technicians in the department. The cost of survey work, the work of the mines branch, mapping and geological work came to something less than 1J per cent of the value of total production last year, which I stated earlier as about one and a third billions of dollars.

At this point I would say that while I have not the figures for the United Kingdom before me the last year for which I saw those figures indicated that the expenditures by the United Kingdom on geological survey was greater than those in Canada for the same purpose. These figures are not absolutely comparable, because they include some things that our figures do not include, and there are some discrepancies. Yet, the United Kingdom which, we consider, is geologically poor, a country the geological formations of which are chiefly concerned with coal and iron, including a comparatively small amount of other minerals, considers the work of geological survey so important that their expenditures for that purpose are greater than ours in Canada.

If our production increases at the same rate in the next decade-and I think there is every reason to believe it will, unless world markets are completely destroyed- Canadian mineral production will exceed $4 billion a year, an amount considerably greater than the gross national product before the war. I mention this only to show the extraordinary growth taking place in this country. It is something that challenges the imagination of every Canadian. We have to stop and think about it to realize what it means to us in Canada, what it means in the matter of increased population, what it means in connection with finding new capital, and what it demands in the way of improving our methods of extraction and of discovery, and all those other technical procedures with which the mines branch has to deal. So much for that phase of the matter.

I should like now to deal with one or two of the individual items of expenditure by some of the companies. According to its last report, the International Nickel Company has spent over $150 million in the last two years. According to the minister's statement, expenditures running to hundreds of millions of dollars are already under way, by the nickel industry as a whole. Thus we have one metal where hundreds of millions of dollars are being expended for its future development at the present time.

I ask any hon. member this question. The minister comes tonight with estimates for the expenditure of $27 million. If there was

a policy of nationalization of the mines in Canada, what would any elected assembly do if a minister of mines and technical surveys came down to the house and said: "I want hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars for the development of nickel"? Why, no government under our method of accounting would dream of accepting such a statement; and yet, if we had nationalization of the mining industry, without the expenditure of those hundreds of millions of dollars, the industry could not prosper and increase the way it has been. I mention that just as an example to show the fallacy of any program of nationalization of the mining industry.

I shall give another example. I have not the figures in front of me of the amount that was spent last year, and the minister will correct me if I am wrong, but something like $320 million was spent in the exploration and development of petroleum products.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MINES AND TECHNICAL SURVEYS
Permalink
LIB

George Prudham (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys)

Liberal

Mr. Prudham:

The amount was $1 million a day.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MINES AND TECHNICAL SURVEYS
Permalink
PC

Agar Rodney Adamson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Adamson:

Thank you very much; $365 million for exploration and discoveries. Suppose a minister came to this house and said: "I want $1 million a day to go out and do some prospecting and drilling". What would any hon. member say; what sort of reception would he get? What reaction would the treasury board have to such a statement? Yet today private industry is risking and betting a million dollars a day in this one industry.

I give the committee these two examples of the fallacy of any program of nationalization of the mineral industry in Canada. It is a risk business. Enormous sums of money have to be spent to win the minerals. To say that you could come in with any finite sum and say, "We want, shall we say, $50 million to develop the Pembina field in the next year" is far-fetched. The Pembina field may require $100 million to $200 million to develop. Is that the sort of proposition that could be brought to the house? Is that the sort of proposition that the Minister of Finance could produce estimates for? I would not think so. That is an example of the fallacy of this policy of nationalization. Nothing has shown it so clearly as the statement the minister has given the committee tonight.

I want to deal very shortly with one other question. I have not the annual report for the present year; it is not printed, but for the past year I find this statement on page 8 regarding the petroleum industry:

Much of the gas occurs in close physical association with the oil and would be largely wasted if crude oil production were unduly increased.

What does that mean? It simply means that it is imperative to find a market as quickly as possible for natural gas. Unless we are going to waste and destroy a great national asset in the natural gas and burn it off at the wellhead in flares, which is a criminal thing to do, a start on the gas pipe lines must be made at the very earliest opportunity. That gas must be used. It must be used in the industries in Canada. It must be used not only in the industries in Canada but in the development of new industry, and it also must find a North American market where that is available after our own needs have been supplied.

Let me give you one example of what this may mean. In the last month or two a new deposit of base metals, silver, copper and possibly other metals has been discovered at Manitouwadge in northern Ontario. It is in an area where there is no fuel; it is in an area where the cost of fuel for smelting and refining purposes might be so great as to jeopardize the whole development of the project. Yet-and this is a very rough estimate-I have heard it said that if this new development fulfils promises, a market for no less than 10 billion cubic feet of gas will be established. A market for 10 billion cubic feet of gas is larger than the present consumption of the city of Toronto. This is probably not a really fair comparison because the city of Toronto is using artificial gas at the present time with a low thermal rating and very expensive, but still quite a lot of gas is used. In this one new development there is a potential market for a greater amount of gas than is being used in Toronto at the present time. I mention that not as a mine promoter, or anything of that kind, but as an example of the challenge we are facing in Canada today with development in this country. A year ago that was barren land. Today it is a potential market for 10 billion cubic feet of gas.

The next item I wish to come to is proper housing of the department in Ottawa. I sincerely hope that the geological survey will be properly housed in the near future in a building of its own. To stick it away in the museum, and house it all over the place the way it is, is nothing short of criminal.

I do not know whether the same is true today, but the mines department was at one time housed in 27 buildings in Ottawa. Indeed, the central registry was in fact the boy on a bicycle and if there was to be a file drawn he was alerted and went to the central registry where he picked up the file. Whether that is so today I do not know, but it certainly was the situation at one time.

19. 1954 3183

Supply-Mines and Technical Surveys

To try and run a department under these conditions is almost impossible and I hope the department will, in the shortest possible time, get itself properly housed, not only as far as laboratories generally are concerned, but also as regards ore dressing laboratories in particular, and all the other departments dealing with the mines. I hope the same will be done for the geological survey, and that it will be properly housed in a building of its own. I have expressed this hope for many, many years, and I now sincerely hope that, with the development now taking place, this matter will be dealt with without further delay.

I would also like to say a word about the development and refining of titanium. Titanium is a metal of enormous promise but the difficulties have not as yet been completely solved as regards a method of cheap extraction from the basic ore, ilmenite. The department has worked, I believe, for four years on this one problem, but if a solution is found the whole question of producing aircraft engines which will stand the terrific heat of the new supersonic planes will very largely be solved.

Each development ties in one with another. Work for the Department of National Defence proceeds and something of great commercial value is discovered as a byproduct. There again I would like to say that we on this side of the house have complained that the amount of research work being done in Canada is woefully inadequate. This one example of the refining and producing of titanium ore is an example of what I mean.

Coming now to the project regarding iron ore. In the not too distant future the deposit at Steep Rock will be producing in the nature of 15 million tons a year, which is over double the present production of iron ore in Canada. The challenge there, Mr. Chairman, is not only to the miners and the producers, but the challenge is also to find an expanded steel industry which will use a larger part of that ore than is being done at present. With this great potential of iron ore I feel that we must in every way possible encourage the steel industry to expand to meet the challenge of the natural resources of this country. I know a great expansion has taken place since the war. I know our major companies have expended many millions of dollars on new blast furnaces at Hamilton, the Soo, and elsewhere in Canada, but with the great possibilities of development now before us we must be prepared to look for a steel industry in Canada many times its present size. That is one of the subsidiary challenges arising out of the present situation.

3181 HOUSE OF

Supply-Mines and Technical Surveys

Now, Mr. Chairman, I have taken rather longer than I intended on this subject, but if I have done nothing else I sincerely hope that I have shown you, sir, and to hon. members who may not be interested in mining as much as I am, that today the greatest internal challenge we have in Canada is the development of our natural resources.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MINES AND TECHNICAL SURVEYS
Permalink
CCF

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Herridge:

Mr. Chairman, I want to take the opportunity to say a few words on the work of this most important department before this particular item is approved. I was very interested in the statement the minister read which was quite comprehensive and informative. It is the type of statement that one can possibly derive more from by rereading it, but personally I appreciate that he has made that statement to the house.

I was interested in the remarks of the hon. member for York West who has just resumed his seat. I would not for a moment profess to have his knowledge of the mining industry, but when the hon. member speaks he rather creates the atmosphere of the board room, of company directors discussing the development of the mining industry. Possibly, Mr. Chairman, you will excuse me if I create the atmosphere of the bunkhouse, the prospector's cabin, and the miner's wife who is a bit put out about unemployment and that sort of thing.

This, Mr. Chairman, is one of the most important departments of the government and I believe it is a department about which a good many hon. members in this house know very little. I always make a practice of reading the annual report of this department with great interest, because it is a department whose work is vital to the development of our natural resources. It is a department about which hon. members should be well informed so that they can in turn inform their constituents and people generally about the nature of the work being done.

That is the reason why, Mr. Chairman, I suggest again, as I did last year and the year before, that in my opinion the estimates of this department should be referred to the committee on mines, forests and waters, which has been in a sort of moribund condition for about, I believe, eight years.

I think it would be a good idea indeed to have these estimates referred to that committee, not solely for the purpose of finding out how the money is expended but in order to give to a good many of these excellent officials and people who are doing this work the opportunity to explain to a committee of

this house the details of the work they are undertaking. I think that procedure would be extremely helpful indeed.

I find other members who have little idea as to the excellent work being carried on by the various branches of this department. I have some knowledge of the excellent work that is being carried on because the miners in my constituency have often told me of the excellent service the department gives to those who want advice on the treatment of ores and things of that sort. If these estimates were referred to the committee, I think there would be given to the members of that committee an opportunity to hear evidence from the officials and to gather a great deal of useful information.

I think it is about time the committee on mines, forests and waters was put to work. Here we are in a period when our natural resources are being developed at their greatest rate in Canadian history, when there is the greatest interest in their development and also possibly the greatest interest in the conservation of natural resources; yet the very committee that should be giving consideration to these important questions, to my knowledge, has not sat for seven or eight years or maybe longer. I urge the minister to give consideration to having his estimates go before that committee so that we can gather some information about the work of the department. Let us utilize this committee.

Having made those few remarks in general, Mr. Chairman, I want to say a few words about a matter that is of serious concern to a great number of my constituents, namely the closing of a good number of the base metal mines in the interior of British Columbia. When I was listening to the minister's statement I noticed that he made a reference to base metal mining, but it was a reference of only two or three sentences. It seemed to me that he rather skipped over that aspect of the question. While the general mining situation may be satisfactory, I am sure the minister knows, as do his officials, that for many of the small operators in certain sections of British Columbia a serious situation exists so far as base metal mining is concerned. I want to say a few words about that matter at this time.

I have lived in the interior of British Columbia for nearly fifty years and I know a great many of these people in the small mining communities. The closing down of these small mines affects the communities of Salmo, Kaslo, where the hon. member for Vancouver-Quadra was born-and I am sure he knows all about the shut-down in Kaslo

and the surrounding district-Sandon, Silver-ton, New Denver, Slocan city, the Trout lake area and the Boundary country. There are large numbers of people seriously affected at this time because of the closing of most of the smaller base metal mines in this area.

As far back as I can remember, the history of base metal mining in the camps I have mentioned has been one of boom and slump. Ever since mining was commenced in the early 1890's in this area there has been a period of activity and employment, with money expended on roads by the provincial government and money expended on surveys by various corporations and individuals; a short period of activity and prosperity and then a shut-down. That has been the repeated history of these smaller base metal mines in the interior of British Columbia.

I have known a great many of these people throughout the years. I have known many of these old-time prospectors who, unfortunately, are passing out of the picture. The old-time prospector has not much opportunity as against the diamond drill and the large amounts of capital required to establish a mine nowadays.

I might tell you, Mr. Chairman, a story that comes to my mind. I know a chap named Jack Rady, an old prospector in the Lardeau country, one of those men who prospected for 50 years and made a few finds but who never became well off. I was wanting to go up the Duncan river 18 miles in order to visit six or eight chaps who were developing a small claim there. He was the only one who had an outboard motor powerful enough to go up the Duncan river at high water. As we were going up the river with some difficulty he said, "I do not know what I can do to help the C.C.F. but I certainly feel like helping them because I know the C.C.F. have always done their best for the prospectors and the small operators in the mining areas. I will tell you what I will do", he said. "There is not anybody in the Trout lake area who has an outboard motor powerful enough to go up the Duncan at this time of the year. There is not one of the other fellows in the other parties who can get through to these six chaps until the ballot is counted. That is the best that I will do." That is the spirit of these old-timers; and it is many of these people and their dependents who are suffering because of the decline in the base metal industry at this time.

I think the time has passed when governments can let communities and human beings suffer periodically as they have suffered in these communities without any action and without any planning. I have heard from

Supply-Mines and Technical Surveys several groups in this connection. I have heard from the miners directly, the prospectors, and those interested in mining. I have heard from the miners' wives; and I can tell you that a miner's wife can, on occasion, become quite vocal when her husband is out of work for some extended period. I have heard from the business people in these small communities and I have heard from a good number of the small operators. In order to shorten my remarks this evening-and I do not want to extend them more than is necessary to give to the committee the picture in the base metal mining industry in the small mines in the interior of British Columbia- I am just going to quote from a brief that was sent to me by the International Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers. It is the statement and proposals adopted by the sixth Canadian convention of the International Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers for submission to the government of Canada. The minister was one of those who heard these representations. I just want to quote briefly from a paragraph in the brief entitled "Crisis in Base Metals" and which reads as follows:

So far the base metals crisis has developed mainly in lead and zinc. The fall in lead and zinc prices has been very heavy. The Canadian price of lead is now 12 cents a pound. 40 per cent below the high point in 1931. The price of zinc is 9i cents a pound, more than 50 per cent below the price at the end of 1951. Further declines must be expected.

The heavy fall in lead and zinc prices affected first the small and marginal mines with high production costs. Already no less than 22 mines in British Columbia alone have been forced to close down. This situation is made worse by the fact that there is only one smelter for lead and zinc in Canada, namely the smelter at Trail, B.C. on which the majority of mines depend for the smelting of their ore. Just when metal prices were falling this smelter chose to raise its smelting charges, thus tightening the squeeze on the smaller mines and helping to force some of them to close down.

Thousands of workers in our industry have been laid off. In the communities where mining is the only industry, it means there are no other jobs available, and that the merchants and farmers suffer too. In many mining communities the situation is as bad today as it was at the depth of the depression 20 years ago. The major lead-zinc producer in Canada, the Consolidated Mining and Smelting Company, is now also cutting down production; there have been large lay-offs at the smelter in Trail, while arrangements have been made in Kimberley between the company and the union to work short time so as to maintain maximum employment under the circumstances.

As already noted, the crisis in non-ferrous metals has until recently been limited to lead and zinc. But now it threatens to engulf copper as well.

The report goes on and explains this in greater detail. Then the union makes certain proposals. I might say that I was visited by some small operators as well who, in general, supported these proposals. The union suggests that there should be an increase in unemployment payments and that

3186 HOUSE OF

Supply-Mines and Technical Surveys there is a necessity for the broadening of export markets overseas, particularly in the British commonwealth and Europe. It also proposes the building of a lead-zinc custom smelter in western Canada to free the small producers from dependence on the smelter at Trail for the processing of their ore.

I am not going to take the time of the house to deal further with the brief. I mention this to bring the serious plight of the people engaged in small mine operations to the attention of the minister. In my opinion it is not good enough to go decade after decade and let this situation recur and recur without any government action to prevent it and without any attempt to plan. In my opinion the responsibility rests on the federal government and provincial government, and in our area there is a moral responsibility on the Consolidated Mining and Smelting Company.

I know that the primary responsibility rests on the provincial government because natural resources come directly under its jurisdiction. I think it is up to the provincial government of British Columbia to give a lead in this direction and to do something to indicate to the federal government and to the Consolidated Mining and Smelting Company that it is interested in getting all three groups together to do some planning to prevent these recurring slumps.

The federal government has some responsibility. It is responsible for trade policies. It has a great deal of effect with its taxation policies and so on. I do not know whether the minister has had the opportunity to meet the minister of mines of British Columbia, but I do urge that every co-operation be extended to the government of that province if they wish to work with the minister and with the large mining companies to see what can be done about this very important question.

The federal government can continue to render valuable technical aid to these small industries, but I emphasize again that it is no doubt the primary responsibility of the provincial government to give some leadership in seeking protection for these communities and the workers employed there. The Consolidated Mining and Smelting Company has a definite responsibility but I think you cannot blame the company so much if the government does not take action in the matter.

As I say, the company has a moral responsibility because it has a monopoly of the power production of the interior of British Columbia, has control of the greater portion of the base metal resources of that part of the province and has a monopoly in the

smelting industry. I know the company has been of great advantage to the interior of British Columbia, and I am of the opinion, if the provincial government would go ahead in this direction with the support of the federal government, that as a result of the co-operation of the two governments and the Consolidated Mining and Smelting Company something could be done to improve conditions in the small base metal mines in the interior of British Columbia.

In reading this very interesting report I noticed that it says that company production was reduced because of a shortage of power. I want to read one paragraph on page 9 which is as follows:

The substantial increases in the tonnage outputs of lead and zinc over 1951 failed by a considerable margin to offset the steady decline in the prices of the two metals. Thus the combined value of output at $184,504,306 was $9,487,483 lower than in 1951. The price of lead decreased from 18-80 cents a pound at the commencement of the fiscal year to 13-25 at the end, and that of zinc from 19-30 to 11 cents. The decline in prices led to the closing of several marginal producers, mainly in British Columbia, principal source of Canadian lead and zinc. The situation in that province was further aggravated by a power shortage which forced the Consolidated Mining and Smelting Company of Canada Limited to curtail its treatment of custom ores.

I get this information from the small operators and I presume it is correct. They tell me that the treatment charges of Consolidated Mining and Smelting Company in 1939 were $2 a ton. In 1948 they were $11 a ton and I am advised that they are now $40 a ton. I take these figures as given to me, but I cannot vouch for their accuracy. I am told by a number of the small operators that the increase in smelting costs alone is a great hardship. I am firmly of the opinion that if the provincial government would take the lead in this matter, supported by the federal government and in co-operation with the company, a number of these so-called marginal mines which are so close to being profitable could be operating today with some consideration on the part of the company and the co-operation of the two governments. Instead they are closed down and the communities are suffering.

I admit that it would be uneconomical to operate at the present time some mines that were developed during the period of high price of lead and zinc. I admit that no adjustments could create a situation whereby they could all operate at a profit. But I know quite a number of these people who went into the hills with small amounts of capital and developed small base metal mines and I am informed by them that there are marginal mines that with very little assistance could continue to operate and make a

small profit. They tell me they could operate if their treatment costs were cut to any extent, and ore accepted.

I know the minister is concerned about this question because I have discussed it with him. I urge the minister to extend every possible co-operation to the provincial government in an effort to do something to solve the problem of boom and bust so far as the small base metal mining communities in the interior of British Columbia are concerned. To me it is not good enough to merely let the market decide these things without any attempt to solve them as between governments and the big companies concerned. We have passed that stage. We cannot continue to let communities suffer alternate periods of prosperity and slump decade after decade and take no action.

If war were declared tomorrow the whole resources of the country would be mobilized and the government could do whatever it might put its mind to. As far as this group is concerned, we are merely asking them to use the same energy and the same resources in solving one of the many problems presented to us by peace. I am confident that effective co-operation between the federal and provincial governments and the co-operation of the Consolidated Mining and Smelting Company, which I think would be forthcoming under the leadership of these governments, can do much to remedy the situation. All that is required is acceptance of responsibility by the governments and companies concerned.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MINES AND TECHNICAL SURVEYS
Permalink
SC

Bert Raymond Leboe

Social Credit

Mr. Leboe:

Mr. Chairman, I think my remarks might be considered as being made primarily for the purpose of seeking information. I am wondering how much research work has been done in the past with respect to the development of electrical power at coal mines throughout the country and transporting it by the use of wires to the point where energy is needed rather than moving the coal to that point.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MINES AND TECHNICAL SURVEYS
Permalink
LIB

George Prudham (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys)

Liberal

Mr. Prudham:

I really am not rising on a point of order, but I wonder whether we could save the discussion of problems related to the coal industry until the coal board estimates are before the committee.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MINES AND TECHNICAL SURVEYS
Permalink
SC

Bert Raymond Leboe

Social Credit

Mr. Leboe:

I think that possibly could be done. As I said, I was looking for information in that respect. There are some other aspects to the problem of hydroelectricity which have a bearing on the question I have in mind, that is a wartime emergency. The amount of money we are spending on defence would indicate we recognize the possibility of a war so I feel that possibly some thought should be given, if it has not already

19. 1954 3187

Supply-Mines and Technical Surveys been given, to breaking up the sources of electric power into smaller units. It is at that point that the business of the coal mines enters the picture.

I recognize that some research has been done in that connection. The minister spoke of a turbine that is now in the process of development, but of course at this moment that is an unknown quantity. We all recognize the vulnerability of our dams and hydroelectric power plants during a war. I was considering, therefore, the possibility of dispersing these power units throughout the area, perhaps as a defence measure looking forward to the time when an emergency might arise and at the same time looking after the communities in peacetime.

Mention has been made tonight of the distress of the mines throughout the country. 1 should like to say that I feel very strongly that our distress in mining or any other industry, outside of acts of God such as drought and so forth, is man-made and can therefore be solved by man. If anyone were to look at the distress there is in the industry today, he would find that distress is a direct result of financial policy. I believe that when we start looking at the slumps and periods of prosperity that were mentioned, invariably we will find that the root cause is financial policy. If we are going to solve some of these problems such as distress in the mines and meet the need for further research, we shall be altogether dependent on this government's financial policy.

I do not believe we in this country can continue on the basis of subsidizing this industry and subsidizing that industry. Just before I left Prince George someone said to me, "The only industry that is not subsidized is the lumber industry and we think we ought to get subsidies there too; can you do anything about it?" I do not think that is the answer to our problem. We cannot continue to subsidize here and there out of the taxpayers' pockets in order to try to make an equal distribution of purchasing power. When we do, we have a situation that is exactly comparable to the sausage tied on the end of a stick over the dog's back. The faster the dog runs the faster the sausage goes, and he never catches up to it. He is only playing himself out. I would say, Mr. Chairman, that the alleviating of the distress in the mining industry and the welfare of the miners throughout this country depends almost entirely on this government's financial policy. I would certainly urge that the government review that policy with a view to getting purchasing power into the hands of the potential consumers, and thereby build up our industry.

3188 HOUSE OF

Supply-Mines and Technical Surveys

As we have said before, and it is a fact, production does not release enough purchasing power to buy back that which is produced. When we are purchasing certain items that are items for destruction, the purchasing power released is available for the purchase of consumer goods and we have prosperity. Naturally, in peacetime when we are not preparing for a war, the whole system breaks down. I would urge the government to get to the bottom of the source of evil, which I believe is our financial policy.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MINES AND TECHNICAL SURVEYS
Permalink
LIB

George Prudham (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys)

Liberal

Mr. Prudham:

I would suggest that the hon. member direct those remarks to the Minister of Finance. This department could not deal with the problem as he suggests.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MINES AND TECHNICAL SURVEYS
Permalink
SC

Bert Raymond Leboe

Social Credit

Mr. Leboe:

I am finished with my

remarks, so perhaps we could call it ten o'clock and adjourn the debate.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MINES AND TECHNICAL SURVEYS
Permalink
LIB

William Alfred Robinson (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The Chairman:

Shall the item carry?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MINES AND TECHNICAL SURVEYS
Permalink
CCF

Alexander Malcolm Nicholson

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Nicholson:

I have a few remarks, Mr. Chairman, which I should like to make at a later time. Would you call it ten o'clock?

Item stands.

Progress reported.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MINES AND TECHNICAL SURVEYS
Permalink

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

On Monday, Mr. Speaker, we shall take third reading of the two bills that

will be available for that stage. Then, we shall move to go into supply, and when the motion is carried we shall continue with this debate, calling after that agriculture. If that is the position on Tuesday night, we shall take the Criminal Code on Wednesday. On Thursday we shall move to refer the items in the estimates relating to external affairs to the standing committee on external affairs. I presume there will be a debate on external affairs on that motion.

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Permalink
CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles:

With respect, I think the minister overlooked one point. Perhaps it was deliberate. He did not indicate whether any new departments would be called if we got into supply.

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Permalink
LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

I was hoping, Mr. Speaker, that it would be unnecessary to make that announcement because we could call all the other departments perhaps when we passed the motion.

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Permalink
CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles:

Then my suspicions were well founded.

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Permalink
LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

But if that is not agreeable we would call external affairs, national defence, national health and welfare, and allow them to stand.

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Permalink

March 19, 1954