December 15, 1953

ANNOUNCEMENT OF CHANGES IN COMPENSATION OF STAFF

LIB

Louis-René Beaudoin (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

I have the honour to inform the house that the Clerk has laid on the table a report of the civil service commission which recommends changes in compensation to the staff of the House of Commons. Hon. members will recall that in regard to sessional employees I made an announcement which appears at page 426 of Hansard dated November 27, 1953, to the effect that the revision will take place along similar lines, effective December 1.

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF CHANGES IN COMPENSATION OF STAFF
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PRIVILEGE

MR. LOW REFERENCE TO STATEMENT IN VANCOUVER "SUN"

SC

Solon Earl Low

Social Credit

Mr. Solon E. Low (Peace River):

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a question of privilege. My attention has been called to a column on page 4 of the Vancouver Sun, dated December 8, written by one Elmore Philpott, and in that column he wrote:

Hence it would appear that the Social Credit party may be getting ready to make itself the deliberate and vocal champion of McCarthyism in Canada.

My question of privilege is this: The writer of the column from which this sentence was taken tries to make it appear that the Social Credit movement is making ready to champion McCarthyism in Canada. In this, the columnist Elmore Philpott is just as far off base as he has been in many of his wild speculations of late years. I want to make it clear to him and all others in Canada that the Social Credit movement, of which I have the honour to be the spokesman, is not now championing McCarthyism in Canada, and is not getting ready to do so in the future. I thought I had made that abundantly clear when I said in this chamber on November 25: "I should like to make it definitely known that I feel it is irresponsible conduct on the part of any Canadian to try to butt into their (United States') affairs."

Mr. Speaker, we have always urged, and we do now strongly urge, that every effort be made to keep communists and communist

sympathizers out of government departments and our vital industries. But when inquiries are instituted for screening or for other security purposes in Canada, we strongly urge that they be conducted under the unabridged rule of law; that great care be taken to ensure that men are not found guilty merely by association; and that the rights and freedoms of individual Canadians be fully respected and the dignity of our courts and legal processes be most carefully safeguarded.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. LOW REFERENCE TO STATEMENT IN VANCOUVER "SUN"
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MR. BROOKS-REFERENCE TO REMARKS OF HON. MEMBER FOR TEMISCOUATA

PC

Alfred Johnson Brooks

Progressive Conservative

Mr. A. J. Brooks (Royal):

Mr. Speaker, on a point of privilege, I am sorry I was not in the house last night when the hon. member for Temiscouata (Mr. Pouliot) was speaking. He referred to me, as will be found at page 899 of Hansard, and he said this:

If the note I took is correct . . .

I can assure him at once that it was not correct. Referring to me he went on:

... he said that owing to that fact it was impossible for the province to look after the conservation of natural resources within its borders. That is a sad thing. He went so far as to suggest-and I have taken it down in writing-that the dominion government-and again it is "the dominion government", not "the government of Canada"-should take control of our forests.

I never said in my speech, Mr. Speaker, that the dominion government should take possession or control of the forests in New Brunswick or any other province. As far as the use of the word "dominion" is concerned, I have read my address very carefully and the word "dominion" was not used. I used the word "federal", and I may say also that I would not have any objection to using the word "dominion" because I was always very sorry it was dropped.

Topic:   MR. BROOKS-REFERENCE TO REMARKS OF HON. MEMBER FOR TEMISCOUATA
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CRIMINAL CODE

MOTION TO PRINT REPORTS OF ROYAL COMMISSION AND SPECIAL COMMITTEE

LIB

Stuart Sinclair Garson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Hon. Stuart S. Garson (Minister of Justice):

Hon. members may recall that when the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) was speaking on the speech from the throne on November 16 he referred to the bill to revise the Criminal Code which received first reading on that day. At that time the hon. member for Prince Albert (Mr. Diefenbaker) asked

Criminal Code

whether it would be possible to have printed and made available to members the findings of the special committee of the last house, and stated further that it would go a long way toward doing away with the necessity of convening another special committee if those recommendations could be made available.

I understand that the queen's printer has available about 40 sets of the minutes and proceedings of the special committee of this house and about 85 sets of the minutes and proceedings of the banking and commerce committee to which the bill was referred last year in the other place. These quantities are obviously not sufficient to enable every hon. member to have a set of the proceedings of both committees. The cost of reprinting these proceedings, which run to over 400 pages, would be about $2,000. I would suggest that it might be sufficient if the available sets were distributed proportionately among the various groups in this house. On the other hand, it would appear to be desirable that every hon. member should have in his hands the report of the royal commission on the Criminal Code and should also have an opportunity to peruse the three reports of the special committee of this house that examined the bill in detail at the last session.

For that reason, sir, I would like to move, seconded by my hon. colleague, the Minister of Labour (Mr. Gregg), that:

One thousand copies in English and 250 copies in French be printed of the report of the royal commission on the revision of the Criminal Code and of the three reports of the special committee of this house appointed to examine the bill and that in connection therewith the operation of standing order 64 be suspended.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE
Subtopic:   MOTION TO PRINT REPORTS OF ROYAL COMMISSION AND SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles:

May I ask one question. In view of the inference in this motion that it is desirable for us to have this material in our hands, is it the intention of the minister to ask the house to proceed with the debate on second reading of the Criminal Code before we have that material?

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE
Subtopic:   MOTION TO PRINT REPORTS OF ROYAL COMMISSION AND SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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LIB

Stuart Sinclair Garson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Garson:

The answer to my hon. friend's question is yes. I think perhaps I should supplement that answer with a few words of explanation. The bill revising and consolidating the Canadian criminal law, which runs to over 756 sections, deals with a number of matters each one of which has a principle of its own: for example, the principle relating to the law on sedition, or to the law on murder, or to fraud. The suggestion which I propose to make to hon. members on the second reading of the Criminal Code bill is that we should treat as the principle of the second reading just the question as to whether, when a statute has been on the law

books of our country for over 60 years, the time has now come that it should be consolidated.

I should then like to suggest to hon. members that we could discuss the principle of the individual clauses or groups of clauses dealing with the various crimes when we have the bill in committee of the whole and when it will be possible to deal with those clauses in a much more orderly manner. Otherwise we would have on second reading of the bill a debate which might embrace the simultaneous discussion of a large number of principles which possess little relationship to one another except that they are all defined as crimes in a single criminal code.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE
Subtopic:   MOTION TO PRINT REPORTS OF ROYAL COMMISSION AND SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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Motion agreed to.


NATIONAL DEFENCE

ANNOUNCEMENT OF AGREEMENT ON STANDARDIZATION OF SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION

LIB

Ralph Osborne Campney (Associate Minister of National Defence; Solicitor General of Canada)

Liberal

Hon. R. O. Campney (Associate Minister of National Defence):

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform the house that the Minister of National Defence (Mr. Claxton) has today announced in Paris, on behalf of the North Atlantic council, that agreement has been reached by Belgium, Canada, France, the United Kingdom and the United States on the very important matter of standardization of small arms ammunition.

These five countries have agreed, as the result of extensive tests over a two-year period of close co-operation, to adopt as standard small arms ammunition the new 7-62 millimetre light-weight cartridge.

These tests have shown conclusively that there is no significant difference in the performance of rounds which were tested or examined of the 7 millimetre round, which in the English system is known as -280 calibre, and the 7-62 millimetre round which in the English system is known as -30 calibre. Decision to adopt the 7-62 millimetre round was based primarily on the over-all problem of retooling requirements and weapons production facilities of each country concerned. Since adoption of either the 7-62 millimetre or 7 millimetre cartridge would necessitate retooling by Canada and the United Kingdom, and adoption of the 7 millimetre would require retooling by all five countries, it was agreed that the most advanced 7-62 millimetre ammunition will be adopted as standard.

The five nations who co-operated in the solution of this problem jointly invited the other NATO nations to adopt it.

The successful outcome of the joint effort of the nations concerned is of special importance to Canada in view of our close relationship with the armed forces and supply systems of Great Britain on the one hand and the United States on the other.

It will be, I believe, a source of great satisfaction to members of this house and to Canadians generally that the important result which has just been achieved has been due in no small measure to the initiative and persistence of our own Minister of National Defence. The fact that he was asked to make the announcement in Paris on behalf of NATO was, I believe, recognition by the council of his important contribution to the solution of this difficult problem.

It is understood that troop trials by NATO countries of light-weight automatic rifles to use the new ammunition will commence relatively soon.

For Canadian troop trials, the Canadian army has ordered from Fabrique Nationale, Belgium, a number of new light-weight automatic rifles of a Belgian design, which will fire the new ammunition.

Topic:   NATIONAL DEFENCE
Subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF AGREEMENT ON STANDARDIZATION OF SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION
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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

I should like to ask the Associate Minister of National Defence to say a further word or two with respect to the statement he has just made. Will he let us know whether the 7 [DOT] 6 millimetre is the type which was recently used by the Belgians and, I believe, adopted or recommended by the British, or whether it conforms to the type which was being advocated by the United States?

Topic:   NATIONAL DEFENCE
Subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF AGREEMENT ON STANDARDIZATION OF SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION
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LIB

Ralph Osborne Campney (Associate Minister of National Defence; Solicitor General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Campney:

I am not sure on either count. The round adopted has been the subject of a good deal of research, discussion and consideration for two years. It is the ultimate result of lall these discussions in which no doubt the Belgian, American and other types were considered. I cannot therefore answer unequivocally the hon. gentleman's question.

Topic:   NATIONAL DEFENCE
Subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF AGREEMENT ON STANDARDIZATION OF SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION
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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

Perhaps the minister will give us the details tomorrow.

Topic:   NATIONAL DEFENCE
Subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF AGREEMENT ON STANDARDIZATION OF SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION
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PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

I think it would be well to bear in mind that this matter has not just been under discussion for two years. It has been under discussion ever since the war. As a matter of fact, committees were trying to work this out during the war and it has been under consideration ever since. I merely raise that so that no one will be under a misapprehension that it has suddenly arisen within the last two years. I can only express the hope that what has now been achieved

National Defence

after all this delay in connection with small arms ammunition may also be achieved in connection with other types of ammunition.

Topic:   NATIONAL DEFENCE
Subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF AGREEMENT ON STANDARDIZATION OF SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION
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December 15, 1953