May 12, 1953

LIB

John Sylvester Aloysius Sinnott

Liberal

Mr. Sinnott:

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker; I would like to know whether the statement the hon. member for Melfort is

Canada Grain Act

making right now has anything to do with the bill before the house.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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CCF

Percy Ellis Wright

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Wright:

I think it has something to do directly with the bill before the house, because the bill before the house arises out of the action taken by the board of grain commissioners in their findings in the Kreutz-weiser case which, in our opinion, changes the meaning of section 112 of the act, and which we have again tried to introduce into the act in this Bill No. 362. So I think it has a direct bearing on the bill before the house.

I wish to say one word further on this. The Minister of Trade and Commerce and some of his officials apparently think that in Canada we are living in a corporate state. Thank goodness we are not. Thank goodness we still have democracy in this country, and parliament is still free. I think there is not only menace in some of the statements he has made, but some of the officials in the action they have taken have -indicated that they have not any too much respect for parliament, and that parliament is just something they have to put up with.

I do not think that is an attitude which any departmental head or any minister should have toward this House of Commons. And so long as I am a member of the House of Commons I am going to protest that sort of action either in the house or out of it. I think, considering everything that was said, the minister should do as I have suggested; he should either take the necessary action in the house if I have committed a criminal act and bring me before the bar of the house, or he should withdraw his statement. It was a threat; it was a definite threat. I do not think he had the right to come before the committee, and I do not think any minister of the crown has the right to threaten a member of the House of Commons either in or out of the house.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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LIB

William Alfred Robinson (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Robinson):

I

would remind the hon. member that we are discussing Bill No. 362, an act to amend the Canada Grain Act, and I think the hon. member should confine himself to the principle of the bill.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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CCF

Percy Ellis Wright

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Wright:

Mr. Speaker, this whole discussion arises out of an incident which took place in the committee on agriculture, and out of that incident in the committee and out of the action of the board of grain commissioners intervening in the Kreutzweiser case which, in our opinion, changed the meaning of section 112. That is what we are trying to remedy in this bill, to rewrite it for the producers of this country.

Canada Grain Act

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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LIB

George James McIlraith (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Defence Production; Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Mcllrailh:

The bill was on the order

paper long before the committee sat.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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CCF

Percy Ellis Wright

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Wright:

The Kreutzweiser case happened long before the committee sat, too. And it was because of the delay and because of the contradictory evidence-the contradictory statements, rather-made by the grain commissioners in the committee, that I am speaking. And if anyone wishes to read the evidence of representatives of the board of grain commissioners before that committee, despite what the hon. member for Provencher (Mr. Jutras) may have said he will find that there are contradictions.

I am going to leave the matter at that. But let me say this one word further. The minister referred to the committee-

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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LIB

William Alfred Robinson (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Robinson):

Order. I would remind the hon. member that we are discussing an amendment to the Canada Grain Act, and he must confine himself to the principle of the bill before the house.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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CCF

Percy Ellis Wright

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Wright:

'That is exactly what we were discussing in committee, and this incident occurred in committee. The minister came to the committee and stated that so far as taking the action which he suggested in committee-

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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LIB

William Alfred Robinson (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Robinson):

Order.

Does the hon. member refuse to confine himself to a discussion of the principle of the bill? I must ask him to abide by the rules of the house, and I must remind him that we are discussing Bill 362, to amend the Canada Grain Act.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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CCF

Percy Ellis Wright

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Wright:

Then let me get back to the need for this bill. This bill is-

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe:

Am I not going to have an opportunity to speak in reply to your remarks?

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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CCF

Percy Ellis Wright

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Wright:

I will sit down right now.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Right Hon. C. D. Howe (Minister of Trade and Commerce):

Mr. Speaker, as to the bill itself, my officers tell me that it does not change the existing situation at all. The words of the bill are in essence the words of the grain act today and, in the circumstances, I think we could not accept it.

Now, as to the remarks to which I took objection, I shall just read them. Let us have no camouflage as to what the hon. member for Melfort said. Let me just read what he said:

He is interested in the chickens but he is interested in the chickens for what he can get out of them.

Paraphrasing that: Mr. Milner is interested in the producers, but he is interested in the producers for what he can get out

of them. Does my hon. friend really believe that? Mr. Milner, I may say, retired from the grain business. He was recommended to me by the largest producer organization in Alberta, and the appointment was properly an Alberta appointment, since the other two members of the board had been appointed one from Saskatchewan and the other from Manitoba.

I wrote to a number of my friends who are producers in Alberta and asked them for their nomination. Two of my friends also suggested Mr. Milner as a man who would be very satisfactory to the producers. Strangely enough I never had seen Mr. Milner to the best of my recollection at that time. But when I did make inquiries about him I believed that he was a man who would strengthen the board of grain commissioners.

I might say that the board, among its other duties, is responsible for the operation of several terminal elevators. It has technical problems concerning which a man who is not familiar with the trade would have difficulty. He would have difficulty grappling with them.

Since Mr. Milner had been recommended by the producers, I was very glad to accept their recommendation and recommend him to the Prime Minister for appointment to the board of grain commissioners. Since he has been on the board I do not know any man who has worked more zealously for the western producers. Certainly in attempting to get their grain to market, records have been broken so far as the movement of their grain is concerned.

Mr. Milner has been constructive wherever he has represented the board on all problems associated with it. And for any member of the House of Commons or any other man to get up and say that Mr. Milner was serving as a member of the board of grain commissioners for what he could get out of it is, in my opinion, a disgusting statement.

My hon. friend says I could either prosecute him or bring him before the bar of the house. I cannot prosecute him, because he did not say what he did outside the house. Perhaps if he will make a similar statement outside the house, perhaps not so strong but which, when paraphrased, would mean the same thing-

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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CCF

Percy Ellis Wright

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Wright:

Read the context.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe:

What has the context to do with it? There is the statement.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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CCF

Percy Ellis Wright

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Wright:

Read what I said. I said he was doing a good job.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe:

You said he was on the board of grain commissioners for what he could get out of the farmers. Then my hon. friend said I should bring him before the bar of the house. Well, as today is the next to last day of the session, I would not like to have him spend the last day of his life in this parliament, or in this House of Commons, before the bar of the house. Therefore I would not do that to him. I would like him to go back and enjoy life on his farm, with happy recollections of his 16 years in the House of Commons.

Would you call it six o'clock, Mr. Speaker?

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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LIB

William Alfred Robinson (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Robinson):

I

remind hon. members that the committee of supply will reconvene at seven o'clock this evening. The hour devoted to the consideration of private and public bills having expired, the committee will return to the business under consideration at five o'clock.

At six o'clock the committee took recess.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO SELL OR STORE GRAIN SUBJECT TO SAMPLE GRADE
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AFTER RECESS The committee resumed at seven o'clock. PRIVY COUNCIL FOR CANADA


ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION

May 12, 1953