April 28, 1953

LIB

Elie Beauregard (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

In my opinion the nays have it.

Topic:   CANADA ELECTIONS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT REGARDING POLL CLERKS AND ADVANCE POLLS
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PC

Agar Rodney Adamson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Adamson:

On division, Mr. Speaker.

Topic:   CANADA ELECTIONS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT REGARDING POLL CLERKS AND ADVANCE POLLS
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LIB

Elie Beauregard (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

I declare the motion lost.

Motion negatived on division.

Topic:   CANADA ELECTIONS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT REGARDING POLL CLERKS AND ADVANCE POLLS
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LIB

Elie Beauregard (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

The hour for private and public bills having expired, the house will resume the business interrupted at five o'clock.

Topic:   CANADA ELECTIONS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT REGARDING POLL CLERKS AND ADVANCE POLLS
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NATIONAL HOUSING ACT

INCREASE IN APPROPRIATION FOR LOANS


The house resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Winters for the second reading of Bill No. 339, to amend the National Housing Act, 1944.


CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Gillis:

Mr. Speaker, when you called it five o'clock I was making some comments on the matter of housing, and saying that the hon. member for Parkdale (Mr. Hunter) was considerably astray in his assertion that what had been recommended in an amendment by the hon. member for York South (Mr. Noseworthy), which was subsequently ruled out of order, would have added a burden to the taxpayers of Canada. No one has any objection to the insurance companies or the lending institutions investing the policyholders' money. That was one criticism made by the hon. member for Parkdale. They are entirely free to do that regardless of what the government may be doing in the way of providing housing. What we do object to is that at the present time the government is

[Mr. Adamson.)

subsidizing the insurance companies and in addition is guaranteeing them against any losses they may encounter in this field.

Another thing I object to particularly is that the insurance companies are not providing housing where it is needed. Their policy is to make an economic survey, and they are prepared to allocate a certain amount of money for the building of homes in those sections which show a bright future. The hon. member for Parkdale and others referred to this matter of serviced land, and in my opinion that problem arises out of the policy pursued by the lending institutions and by industrial corporations across this country in the centralization of industry in a couple of provinces. That means that the lending institutions are centralizing their building programs around the industries in Ontario and Quebec, with the result that they are running out of serviced land.

Not long ago I read a speech made by the mayor of Toronto at a convention, in which he pointed out that the burden upon the municipalities of this province was becoming unbearable because of the influx of people. The providing of schools and other services for these additional people was becoming such a problem that the governments would have to take a look at it very soon. I agree with him. The criticism that serviced land is not available arises out of the policy pursued in the centralization of industry and the building of cities around that centralized empire.

I am also concerned about the policies of the contending parties. I understand the hon. member for Bow River (Mr. Johnston) made some constructive suggestions, and I am sorry I did not hear him. We have recommended procedures that would be workable if the government would adopt them. In my opinion the hon. member for Broadview (Mr. Hees) stated the official position of the Conservative party. He read into the record a statement made by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Drew) that they would call a dominion-provincial conference. The hon. member was very emphatic about this business of free enterprise. As far as I am concerned there is no such thing on this North American continent. It is neither free nor is it enterprise. At one time a man would go out and risk his money. He would build an industry and take his chance. But there is no risk capital any longer; it has to be guaranteed certain rates of interest, and against loss.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN APPROPRIATION FOR LOANS
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IND

John Lambert Gibson

Independent

Mr. Gibson:

Did you ever buy any oil

stocks?

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN APPROPRIATION FOR LOANS
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CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Gillis:

You had better be careful. If the war in Korea ends, away go your stocks. The hon. member for Broadview was down in Saint John, New Brunswick, recently and had something to say about housing. I have in my hand a clipping from the Saint John Loyalist of April 25, 1953, so it is right up to date.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN APPROPRIATION FOR LOANS
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LIB

Andrew Wesley Stuart

Liberal

Mr. Stuart (Charlotte):

Everything down there is up to date.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN APPROPRIATION FOR LOANS
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CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Gillis:

The heading of this article is "Rental Scheme 'Cockeyed'; Urge Change on Commission." Apparently they are setting up some kind of commission to provide low rental housing and the hon. member was quite critical of it. I had better put his own words on the record. I am doing this because I come from the maritimes and when they see this description of the low rental housing available in Ottawa as set out in this article I will have to answer some questions when I go back. The article reads:

Private enterprise in Ottawa is building multiple-unit housing to rent at $50 per month, without subsidy, George Hees, M.P., said while in Saint John. He discussed housing programs after hearing representations of Mr. Leo McNulty and Mrs. Vera Dorey.

Then he went on further:

According to the Toronto M.P. the present plan "sounds cockeyed" and is evidently an "unsound proposition."

He offered to forward plans of the Ottawa private enterprise plan, and said that the builders would invite inspection by a delegation from Saint John.

The article continues:

Mr. Hees said that the Ottawa project is brickfaced apartments, sound-resistant, with three bedrooms, kitchen, dining room, staircase and cellar. During the first year, he said, each head of a household agrees to work one hour per week about the grounds.

When I read that I said to myself, "Where do you get that kind of accommodation in Ottawa for $50 a month?" I have been coming to this city for the last 13 years, and I began to think that perhaps I had not been checking up closely. So I called some friends of mine who live in the city, one just down here on Metcalfe street. He has a little kitchen, a bathroom and sitting room with a pull-out couch. I asked him what he paid for that accommodation and he told me he paid $80 a month. I said, "You do not know about the sanctuary described by the hon. member for Broadview."

So I called another party who I thought was living in accommodation more like that described by the hon. member for Broadview. This party told me that he was living in an old house and that they had had to do one-half of the decorating themselves. They had two bedrooms, a sitting

National Housing Act

room and kitchen, yet were paying $150 a month for that accommodation in an old house.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN APPROPRIATION FOR LOANS
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PC

George Harris Hees

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hees:

I wonder if I could set the hon. member for Cape Breton South right and say a few words here as to what I actually said?

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN APPROPRIATION FOR LOANS
Permalink
CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Gillis:

Will you wait until I am

finished, and then you can make another speech.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN APPROPRIATION FOR LOANS
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PC

George Harris Hees

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hees:

I just wanted to set you right on what I said.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN APPROPRIATION FOR LOANS
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CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Gillis:

I am not saying that the report in the paper is right.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN APPROPRIATION FOR LOANS
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PC

George Harris Hees

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hees:

I just want to set the record right.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN APPROPRIATION FOR LOANS
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CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Gillis:

You can do that later. When I go back to my riding and meet the people there they will say, "What is the idea? We are paying terrible rents down here and yet you fellows in Ottawa can get this accommodation for $50 a month. How is it that you can provide that kind of accommodation in Ottawa for $50 a month?" I can reply that it is not correct but they will tell me that they read the statement by the hon. member from Toronto and I should have straightened it out before I came home. That is exactly what I am doing. I am trying to save myself a lot of questions when I get back home.

This party was paying $150 a month. The accommodation is not as good as the member for Broadview (Mr. Hees) describes. It is not brick-faced, with three bedrooms, kitchen, staircase and so on, for $50 a month. I trust that when the hon. member for Broadview gets a chance he will put on the record where in this city one can find that kind of accommodation provided now by private enterprise.

You know, Mr. Speaker, "private enterprise" is a slogan that has become badly overworked. Chambers of commerce, boards of trade and all agencies of that kind who are a bit afraid that someone may be getting around to doing a little planning in the economy, have built up a lot of fears and apprehensions in the minds of many people. That slogan has become overworked in the minds of people; and if it could have solved the problems of the world there has been ample of time over the centuries. We have been following that kind of system and we have developed wars, devastation, misery and poverty and have not learned to do very much about them.

When I look at plants like the one at Chalk River, and the development of science

National Housing Act

today, I think how wonderful the brain of man is with respect to the things he can devise. However, he has never learned how to distribute bread and to provide a place for people to sleep. It is rather shocking to think about the matter in that way because it adds up to the fact that slogans do not solve anything, and that you must have people who really want to do something.

We are all striving to obtain houses for the average person in this country.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN APPROPRIATION FOR LOANS
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PC

George Harris Hees

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hees:

As I have already spoken, could I set the record straight at this point? Iknow I am not allowed to make another

speech.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN APPROPRIATION FOR LOANS
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LIB

George Alexander Cruickshank

Liberal

Mr. Cruickshank:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN APPROPRIATION FOR LOANS
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April 28, 1953