March 10, 1953

PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

I must have been left out.

Topic:   IRRIGATION
Subtopic:   SOUTH SASKATCHEWAN RIVER
Sub-subtopic:   FURTHER INVESTIGATION
Permalink
LIB

Louis Stephen St-Laurent (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. St. Laurent:

Well, I got two of them, and I shall be happy to send one to my hon. friend.

Topic:   IRRIGATION
Subtopic:   SOUTH SASKATCHEWAN RIVER
Sub-subtopic:   FURTHER INVESTIGATION
Permalink
PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

That is real co-operation.

Topic:   IRRIGATION
Subtopic:   SOUTH SASKATCHEWAN RIVER
Sub-subtopic:   FURTHER INVESTIGATION
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THE BUDGET

ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE


The house resumed, from Monday, March 9, consideration of the motion of Hon. Douglas Abbott (Minister of Finance) that Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair for the house to go into committee of ways and means, and the amendment thereto of Mr. Macdonnell (Greenwood), and the amendment to the amendment of Mr. Coldwell.


LIB

William John Ward

Liberal

Mr. W. J. Ward (Dauphin):

Mr. Speaker, I had almost finished discussing the address of the hon. member for Greenwood (Mr. Macdonnell) when the house adjourned last night. However, there was one reference he made upon which I should like to comment.

He read from the New York Times, in support of the arguments he made a week ago Tuesday. If the hon. member has been a continuous reader of the New York Times he perhaps read an article that appeared about a year ago in that newspaper to the effect that that publication believed that Canada had the best government in the world. They commented upon our good Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott).

Perhaps at this time I might tell of a conversation I had a short time ago with a man from Washington. He was commenting upon this budget, making reference again to our good Minister of Finance, and said, "If you will let us have your Doug Abbott we will send you a carload from Washington."

I should like now to turn my attention for a moment to the hon. member for Dufferin-Simcoe (Mr. Rowe). The wild, extravagant language and epithets our opponents have been using lately do not seem to ring true. Have hon. members ever seen a drowning man? If they have they will have observed that he went through about the same antics as did the hon. member for Eglinton (Mr. Fleming), as the hon. member for Lake Centre (Mr. Diefenbaker) does occasionally, and as the hon. member for Calgary East (Mr. Harkness) did last night. It looks to me as though these men are just wise and bright enough to know that the grave is lying just ahead for them. They are simply whistling to keep up their courage. Anyone who thinks that the public of Canada are going to swap what is facing us in this house for what we have over here, a potential prime minister in every front seat-

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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?

An hon. Member:

In carload lots.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

William John Ward

Liberal

Mr. Ward:

I returned from my constituency just the other day and while there I attended a gathering in the home of a good Conservative friend. I have many warm social friends in the Conservative party. In fact about one-third of them vote for me. The conversation turned to politics and one farmer, a lifelong Conservative, who was present, after listening to his fellow farmers and others talking, said, "In my judgment we have the best government in Canada today that we have ever had; you will never beat this government while times are as good as they are now."

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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?

An hon. Member:

He is not a lifelong Conservative; he is a dead Conservative.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PC

Douglas Scott Harkness

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harkness:

That is what the Democrats said in the United States.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

William John Ward

Liberal

Mr. Ward:

I am glad to know that I am

getting a rise out of hon. members over there. I should like to refer now to the hon. member for Dufferin-Simcoe. He said that every businessman in this country wants to know how this enormous tax burden is being spent. In dealing with this matter I am going to make reference also to the hon. member for Assiniboia (Mr. Argue), the hon. member for Eglinton, the hon. member for Calgary East, and my good friend, the hon. member for Lake Centre.

The hon. member for Dufferin-Simcoe said that businessmen want to know where these enormous taxes go. I should like to turn back for a moment to what our taxes and expenditures were in 1939. I think the hon. member for Wetaskiwin (Mr. Thomas) referred to that and then made a comparison 68108-177i

The Budget-Mr. Ward from there on. The hon. member for Assiniboia told the Minister of Finance that 70 per cent of this budget was for the rich man.

I looked up to see just where this money goes. I found that $4,000 million out of the $4,500 million was irreducible. Would my hon. friends reduce the $127 million that is paid out in pensions to soldiers? Would they reduce the $27,250,000 paid out in war veterans allowances? Would they reduce the $37,750,000 for the maintenance of veterans hospitals?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PC

Julian Harcourt Ferguson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Ferguson:

Take the horses off.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

William John Ward

Liberal

Mr. Ward:

I will come to that in a

moment. I think it was the hon. member for Battle River (Mr. Fair) who referred to our bill for pensions for soldiers and to the fact that in 1939 it was $40,650,000 whereas today it is $127 million. I read a speech which the hon. member for Lake Centre made somewhere in the west when dealing with his pet subject or theme, the bill of rights. He went on to say that what we needed was what he called more intellectual liberty.

I do not know what he was referring to. I cannot think of any intellectual liberty that the hon. member is not enjoying. I cannot think of any intellectual liberty that the people of Canada are not enjoying. We allow communists, socialists and everybody else to nominate candidates who run for every kind of office in the country. What more intellectual liberty could there be? They have a public press and they hold public meetings and all the rest. I could not help but think that he would have been more to the point if he had suggested that there should be a little more intellectual honesty.

That makes me think that my hon. friends opposite are threshing around in an atmosphere of death. Otherwise they would not be making these wild, extravagant statements like the hon. member for Assiniboia, who said that 70 per cent of this budget is for the wealthy people of this country. That statement was made in the face of the fact that $1,000 million is being spent on the poor people of Canada, the people who need it, in the form of old age pensions, family allowances and so on.

The kind of talk that is going out from this house is doing to the people of Canada generally just what it did to a young man who came into my office about a year ago. He was making out his income tax return and was feeling rather sorry for himself because he had to pay $164 in income tax.

I happened to know something of his domestic affairs and after he told me his story

2786 HOUSE OF

The Budget-Mr. Ward I said, "George, what family have you?" He said, "I have five children." "All under 16?" "Yes." I said, "You will be getting just under $500 a year in family allowances, will you not?" He said, "Yes, pretty near that." I said, "Tell me, isn't your father getting the old age pension?" I knew the father was living with him. He said, "Yes." He began to twig something. I said, "Look, your family is getting almost $1,000 from the national treasury and yet you are objecting to paying $164." I said, "Where do you think the balance of that $1,000 came from?"

I suppose he had been listening to the speeches of my hon. friends opposite. He was an honest man but he just had not understood it. I said, "Your neighbours have been subsidizing you to the extent of over $800 a year." He left my office feeling sorrier for himself than when he came in and I too was sorry for him.

A young fellow came in to see me about the same time. He had a little article which he had bought in the hardware store and he said, "Mr. Ward, do you know what I paid for this this morning? I paid $6." I thought there was something back of it, so 1 just kept looking at him. He said, "Not very long ago I could have got it for $2."

I said, "About 1935?" He said, "You are right, I could have bought it for $2 in 1935." I said, "Jimmie, did you have the $2 in 1935?" He said, "No, Mr. Ward, I did not." "Would you like to go back to the day when you could have bought it for $2?" He said, "Not by a damn sight."

These are just a few things that indicate that the people of Canada are not going to go Conservative, which is a party without a policy. They the people may go Social Credit if they agree with the funny money policies of the Social Credit party. They may go C.C.F. because they know that the leader of the socialists has said that every vestige of industry in Canada will be brought under the hammer of socialism.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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?

An hon. Member:

Including the farmers.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

William John Ward

Liberal

Mr. Ward:

Including the farmer. But unfortunately the Conservative party has no policy. They are completely bereft of anything by way of a policy. I recall when the resale price maintenance matter was before the house. They grabbed at that. That was to be the thing with which they were going to whip the Grits, but it had a terrible kick-back so far as they were concerned, so they dropped that.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PC

Julian Harcourt Ferguson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Ferguson:

Not as much as the horses' kick.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

William John Ward

Liberal

Mr. Ward:

When I went home for Christmas two years ago one of my good Conservative friends came to see me. They all come to see me. He said: "What is wrong with

that party of ours in Ottawa?" I said: "What are you referring to?"

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PC

William Earl Rowe

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Rowe:

I do not know why he would

ask you.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

William John Ward

Liberal

Mr. Ward:

He said, "Resale price maintenance. Imagine our party opposing this measure to do away with resale price maintenance." Well, they failed in that. The next thing was redistribution. I can recall the hon. member for Lake Centre (Mr Diefenbaker) getting up in the house and making eloquent speeches. All their friends in the country said: What is the matter with those fellows of ours in Ottawa? Have they lost confidence in themselves? Are they afraid they cannot win new ground? Have they lost the art of political summerfallowing?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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March 10, 1953