May 22, 1952

LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

If I may be allowed to deal with the question-

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
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CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Gillis:

Is it the minister's intention to answer the hon. member for Vancouver-Quadra and then to close off the discussion on the first item?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

I have no such intention. I am not in control of the committee; the chairman is in control. But I had understood that perhaps after I replied to the hon. member, and answered his questions, we would pass the first item and then proceed to the others.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
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CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Gillis:

I have no objection to that, provided I am given the undertaking that I may be permitted under another item to ask a question about that section of the corps of commissionaires who work at the airports. If I am given the undertaking that I may discuss this matter under item 496, I shall be prepared to let the first item pass.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

I will gladly give that undertaking- -and there are several other items, too.

The hon. member for Vancouver-Quadra dealt again with the question of the policy of the Canadian maritime commission with reference to the deep-sea fleet, and Canada's merchant navy. The policy of the commission has not changed-the hon. member seemed to be under the impression that it had- since the commission was established. It is true that the replacement plan has been altered, but that was because the shipping companies felt that it would be more profitable to build ships in Canada for St. Lawrence river and great lakes operation than to build fast cargo vessels for deep-sea operation. The cost of building deep-sea ships is far greater in Canada than in the United Kingdom and certain continental countries, and that is why it was found necessary to alter

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

That is for great lakes and St. Lawrence ships?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

Yes. My hon. friend dealt with the question of the dual capacity of the deputy minister acting as chairman of the maritime commission and asked whether that was a firm policy of the government. That is not a firm policy of the government; the government has determined no policy in that regard. It so happened that at the time of the resignation of the former chairman conditions and circumstances were such that it was found advisable to operate the maritime commission under the arrangement which was then adopted. That action was supported by the fact that a large number of our ships had been transferred to United Kingdom registry, which meant much less work for the maritime commission than it would have had if the one hundred or more ships had remained under Canadian registry. That does not mean to say that should they come back under Canadian registry we will immediately change this policy, neither does it mean that the government is committed to continuing the deputy minister as chairman of the maritime commission.

My hon. friend wanted to know whether the Ming Sung ships were still under Canadian registry. As far as I know they are. If they were not there would be no way of protecting the mortgage.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
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PC
LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

That remains to be seen. My hon. friend wants a statement and he should let me make it. This is a matter which concerns external affairs, but I will give as much information as I have available. It would be a mistake to remove the Ming Sung ships from Canadian registry because we would then lose forever the mortgage which we hold against those ships. There may be some other method of saving the mortgage, but I do not know.

The hon. member asked whether the ships were still flying the Canadian flag. I am not able to answer that and I am sure nobody else is. I do not know where the ships are. I presume they are in Chinese communist waters, but I do not know what flag they are flying. Then my hon. friend wanted to know what steps are being taken to clear up this situation. That is easier said than done. Steps are being taken and careful consideration is being given, and has been given, by

Gold Mining

the government to the whole matter. I am not able to go beyond that because other ministers are dealing with the question.

I can assure my hon. friend that the Canada Shipping Act has been carefully studied. The Department of Justice has been taking an active part, as has the Department of Finance and the Department of External Affairs. The government would like to be able to say that the matter is being cleared up, but there are international difficulties that do not make it so easy.

The matter of high water levels on the great lakes and the upper St. Lawrence river pertains to another department. This department is concerned in so far as the Gut dam is involved. It is a serious problem, and is created by precipitation and the diversion of waters into the great lakes, and to some extent by the Gut dam. All the artificial causes added together are but a drop in the bucket compared to the precipitation or other natural causes. If the Gut dam were removed the effect would be to raise the level about five and one-half inches; but if that were done, particularly at this time, it might cause serious trouble downstream, particularly if the Ottawa river rose as it did last year and some years ago. Serious flood conditions might occur in the downstream areas.

This is unquestionably an international matter, and it is being considered by the two countries. Were the minister of external affairs here he could say how far the talks between Canada and the United States have gone. There is provision under the great lakes-St. Lawrence seaway proposal to guard against this kind of situation by means of regulatory methods provided for in the plans and specifications.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
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Item agreed to. Progress reported.


EMERGENCY GOLD MINING ASSISTANCE ACT

EXTENSION OF APPLICATION TO YEARS


1952 AND 1953 The house resumed consideration in committee of Bill No. 242, to amend the Emergency Gold Mining Assistance Act-Mr. Prudham-Mr. Dion in the chair. On section 1-Calculation for 1950.


LIB

George Prudham (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys)

Liberal

Mr. Prudham:

Just before six o'clock the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre asked about the mines that would be affected by this amendment. There are five mines

which will receive an additional $36,976.64, as follows:

Mine No. 1 $ 6,986.69

Mine No. 2

1,900.25Mine No. 3

11,407.78Mine No. 4

12,558.88Mine No. 5

4,123.64

Topic:   EMERGENCY GOLD MINING ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF APPLICATION TO YEARS
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PC

Agar Rodney Adamson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Adamson:

What is the cost per ounce of those five mines?

Topic:   EMERGENCY GOLD MINING ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF APPLICATION TO YEARS
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LIB

George Prudham (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys)

Liberal

Mr. Prudham:

I could get it, but it is scattered through the report. I would prefer not to give the names, but if the hon. gentleman insists perhaps I had better do so and he can look it up:

1. Hallnor Mines Ltd.

2. Broulan Porcupine Mines Ltd.

3. Porcupine Reef Gold Mines Ltd.

4. Cochenour Willans Gold Mines Ltd.

5. Rycon Mine (C. M. & S.)

Topic:   EMERGENCY GOLD MINING ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF APPLICATION TO YEARS
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PC

Agar Rodney Adamson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Adamson:

I was wondering in what category they would come.

Topic:   EMERGENCY GOLD MINING ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF APPLICATION TO YEARS
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Section agreed to. On section 2-Application of act to 1951, 1952 and 1953.


CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles:

With respect to clause 2, I note that it extends the application of the act for two more years, but in addition to that it seems to make certain changes so that the basis of computation will be different than it was previously. Can the minister say whether the changes for the next two years will result in the paying out of more money or the paying out of less money than would otherwise be the case?

Topic:   EMERGENCY GOLD MINING ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF APPLICATION TO YEARS
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LIB

George Prudham (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys)

Liberal

Mr. Prudham:

The purpose of this amendment is to extend the application of the act to the years 1952 and 1953 and to clarify the conditions under which a mine operator may elect as a base year the calendar years 1948, 1949 or 1950. The intent of the present act was that the year chosen as the base year should be one in which the mine had been in operation for a full calendar year and had during that time been in production for more than six months. As the act at present reads, a mine whose first year of production commenced subsequent to January 1 and prior to June 30 of any of the above years may choose that year as its base year, thus gaining an advantage that was never intended.

There are five mines in this category and each elected as its base year the first year of operation which in every instance was less than twelve months. This amendment will mean a decrease in assistance payable of $69,456. The mines affected are Howe Sound Exploration Company Limited, Quesabe Mines Limited, Giant Yellowknife

Gold Mines Limited, Campbell Red Lake Mines Limited, and Consolidated Duquesne Mining Company Limited. The last mentioned is not affected financially. Giant Yellowknife Gold Mines Limited will gain $2,960 and the others will lose substantial amounts.

Topic:   EMERGENCY GOLD MINING ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF APPLICATION TO YEARS
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May 22, 1952