May 7, 1952

LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Hon. Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport):

The hon. member was asking why a differentiation was being made between this branch line and the Sherridon-Lynn Lake line where a contribution of $5 million or some such amount was made by the Department of Defence Production. In answer may I say that Canadian National Railways do not deal with branch lines on a set pattern. They are considered in accordance with the circumstances that arise and each case is decided separately.

There are reasons why in this case there should not be a contribution by defence production. First, no request was made by

55704-124J

Canadian National Railways Canadian National Railways to the government and therefore no opportunity arose. Next, I think there is all the difference in the world-I say this with deference to my hon. friend-between this and the other line.

There was a great shortage of nickel-copper production such as was discovered in the northern part of Manitoba, certainly on this continent. The situation was such that it was felt that defence production should contribute that amount, not only for that reason but also because of the length of the line which is several times the length of this line.

There is not the same shortage of aluminum. We have the development at Shipshaw and there are a number of developments in the United States. There was not the same urgency for this development as there was in the other case. Even if there was a contribution I cannot see that it would make much difference because it would be made out of the revolving fund of defence production.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

The position of the railroad would be bettered, would it not?

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

I do not think it would. The estimated traffic operations for the first five-year period indicates that there will be a small profit.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

Does that include interest on the loan from the government?

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

The position of the Sherridon-Lynn Lake line was not the same.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

What about the Peace river outlet?

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

I do not think that I should be asked to deal with a matter of that kind under this legislation. This is specific legislation dealing with a branch line from Kitimat to Terrace. When the government determines as to whether it will construct a line into the Peace river country it will announce its policy in the usual way. I suppose that when my estimates are up I shall be asked certain questions and I shall be glad to deal with the matter at that time.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

Why not tell us now?

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

I do not think this is an opportune time to deal with it. This is legislation for a specific branch line and I think it should be treated accordingly.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and referred to the standing committee on railways, canals and telegraph lines. 1964 HOUSE OF New Westminster Harbour Commission HARBOUR COMMISSIONS


NEW WESTMINSTER

EXTENSION OF BOUNDARIES AND PROVISION FOR LOAN

LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Hon. Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport) moved

that the house go into committee to consider the following resolution:

That it is expedient to introduce a measure respecting the New Westminster harbour commissioners, to extend the boundaries of the harbour, and to provide for a loan of one million, two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to the harbour commissioners for the purpose of constructing additional dockage facilities in the harbour.

He said: Mr. Speaker, there are two parts to this resolution. The first relates to the extension of the boundaries of the harbour of New Westminster.

The New Westminster harbour commissioners were incorporated by chapter 158 of the statutes of 1913, and were given jurisdiction over the harbour of New Westminster from the eastern end of Douglas island to the Sandheads. In 1938 the harbour was extended to include a small area lying between the harbour of New Westminster and the North Fraser harbour. The present boundaries are set out in chapter 37 of the statutes of 1938.

Certain waterlot properties in the Fraser river and the Pitt river which were formerly administered by the Department of Resources and Development as part of the railway belt lands were transferred to the administration of the Department of Transport in 1951. It is now proposed to extend the boundaries of the harbour to include these waterlots which will be placed under the jurisdiction of the harbour commissioners and will be used for industrial sites in connection with waterborne transportation. The boundaries of the harbour would be extended eastward in the Fraser river to Kanaka creek and northeastward in the Pitt river as far as Pitt lake.

The second part of the resolution seeks authority for a loan of $1,250,000 to the harbour commissioners to enable the commissioners to construct additional dockage facilities in the harbour. With respect to the proposed loan, the harbour commissioners represent that there is not sufficient dockage at the port of New Westminster to handle present traffic, and there is no publicly-owned wharf terminal. Five private berths are owned and operated by Pacific Coast Terminals Limited. Two city-owned wharves are operated under lease by private operators. On the south side of the harbour across the Fraser river there are two berths owned by Fraser Mills and three berths at the grain elevator leased to private interests. A number (Mr. Chevrier.]

of shipping agencies have made representations to the commissioners pointing out the insufficiency of dock facilities for present and future traffic requirements.

In 1946 the city was surveyed by Harland Bartholemes for a future town planning scheme including the waterfront. This survey envisaged a frontage as now proposed extending eastward from the present city dock frontage to Pattullo bridge. On the basis of this report, the city wishes in time to release all interest in its waterfront property and with this objective in mind has approached the harbour commissioners to take over the most easterly portion of its docks. The city is also prepared to convey to the crown the adjacent waterfront property lying eastward for a distance of 1,500 feet for the development of additional dock frontage. The commissioners propose to construct dockage facilities on this property and have asked for the loan of $1,250,000 for this purpose.

The port of New Westminster has made substantial progress in recent years which is reflected in the increase of traffic moving in and out of this port. In 1951 there were 394 deep sea arrivals in port with a deep sea freight tonnage in and out of 936,320 tons. In addition there were 1,924 coastal arrivals with a coastal freight tonnage in and out of 2,120,000 tons. This represents an increase in tonnage over 1950.

United States defence authorities consider that this port would be a logical operating point for defence shipments in view of its rail connections to United States points via Great Northern, Northern Pacific and other American railroads.

With the major industrial development now proceeding in British Columbia and the adjoining province of Alberta it is essential that adequate deep sea dock facilities be constructed to take care of traffic moving in and out of the port of New Westminster.

Topic:   NEW WESTMINSTER
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF BOUNDARIES AND PROVISION FOR LOAN
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Howard C. Green (Vancouver-Quadra):

Mr. Speaker, the official opposition are very happy to support any development of the port of New Westminster. As a matter of fact it was under a Conservative prime minister, the late Sir Robert Borden, that the New Westminster harbour commission was set up in the year 1913. The statement just made by the Minister of Transport (Mr. Chevrier) seems to make out a very good case for the proposed legislation. I wonder whether the government is going to give any assistance in the erection or installation of these docks. I took it from his statement that the New Westminster harbour commissioners would have to find all the money and that there would be no assistance from the government.

This is one of the great harbours of Canada; furthermore it is a fresh water harbour and has that advantage over salt water harbours. The manner in which it has been developed reflects great credit on the different harbour commissioners and on the citizens of New Westminster. In British Columbia we believe that the city of New Westminster is more or less in a class by itself. Mind you, I am not leaving out of comparison my own city of Vancouver. However, from the start the city of New Westminster has been blessed with citizens possessed of the highest civic spirit. Hon. members will have heard of their different athletic teams such as the Salmon-belly lacrosse teams. Every boy in New Westminster is supposed to be born with a lacrosse stick in his hand. Down through the years there has been this wonderful spirit and one of the results has been the New Westminster harbour development. Therefore we are very glad to be able to say a few words in support of the proposal.

After the bill has had second reading I presume it will be referred to the standing committee on railways, canals and telegraph lines. I think that is wise because that is the best way for members of the house to become acquainted with the various financial and other details which cannot be adequately studied in the house. I hope the minister will move to refer the bill to the standing committee.

Topic:   NEW WESTMINSTER
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF BOUNDARIES AND PROVISION FOR LOAN
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?

Mr. W. M. Moii@New Westminster

Mr. Speaker, I am very glad to have the opportunity to say a few words in support of this measure. As the sitting member for New Westminster, known throughout the whole world as the port of New Westminster, I appreciate very much, as will the citizens of New Westminster, the kind remarks of the hon. member for Vancouver-Quadra (Mr. Green). No doubt in his younger days he has faced New Westminster lacrosse teams on many occasions years ago when they were known throughout the whole world and won championships throughout the world.

Topic:   NEW WESTMINSTER
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF BOUNDARIES AND PROVISION FOR LOAN
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CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles:

He is not that old.

Topic:   NEW WESTMINSTER
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF BOUNDARIES AND PROVISION FOR LOAN
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LIB

William Malcolm Mott

Liberal

Mr. Mott:

He is old enough to have played lacrosse and they are still playing it. I should like to mention something else that goes back a little farther in the history of the port of New Westminster. Around the year that the hon. member for Vancouver-Quadra mentioned, 1913, the population of New Westminster was approximately 10,000 people. Nevertheless they did look to the future. They could see what that great river meant and the great development that could take place from the point of view of being one of the leading harbours of the world. The council submitted a bylaw to the people involving an

New Westminster Harbour Commission expenditure of $500,000 to start building docks. The first two docks built at New Westminster were constructed then, and from that time onward even sailing ships have come up the river to take on cargoes such as timber and lumber which they carried to all corners of the world.

The harbour has grown since that time until last year there were 394 deep sea ships in port. That represented sixty ships more than in 1950. The latest report I have for the year 1952 shows that from January 1 to March 31 there have been 104 deep sea ships in port compared with ninety-six for the same period last year. The traffic on the river is still increasing. The harbour is about twenty miles from the mouth of the river, and there is a space of about twenty miles on each side of the river that could and probably will be one of the greatest industrial empires on the Pacific coast. It ties in with four railways, the Canadian National, Canadian Pacific, Great Northern and Milwaukee. The two United States railways come into New Westminster before they go to Vancouver, the same as the Canadian National and the Canadian Pacific. It is really the first port of entry from the United States, and it has grown very quickly during the last twenty years.

I support the extension of the harbour limits already mentioned by the minister, and which no doubt will be explained in the bill. There has been difficulty in the upper reaches of the river owing to the fact that no one has control. Some two years ago I had a letter from one of the large industries in that area. There was ice on the river; they were frozen in, and the employees were laid off for about ten days. I believe they also lost a tug trying to break the ice around their booming grounds, and altogether it cost them about $35,000. At that time there was no one to go to. The dredging is looked after by the Department of Public Works with headquarters at New Westminster, but when it comes to difficulties in regard to navigation on the river they all look to the New Westminster harbour commission. With that idea in mind I support the extension of the harbour in order that there might be proper policing, and so that in winter if it is necessary to go beyond the present boundaries of the harbour in order to break the ice and keep the river open, that may be done by the New Westminster harbour board. We have not been able to do that in the past, so I think this extension of the boundaries is a move in the right direction.

I am very glad to support this bill. I appreciate very much the kind remarks that have been made. I will have more to say

1966 HOUSE OF

New Westminster Harbour Commission when this matter goes to committee, since I am a member of that committee; and for the information of hon. members, especially those of the opposition, I may say that I understand the chairman of the harbour commission will be coming here to attend the meetings of that committee, when I am sure any questions we may have in mind can be asked and answered at that time.

Topic:   NEW WESTMINSTER
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF BOUNDARIES AND PROVISION FOR LOAN
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CCF

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. H. W. Herridge (Kootenay West):

As a

member of this group, Mr. Speaker, and a member from British Columbia, I want to make some brief remarks on this bill. I listened with interest to the minister, to the hon. member for Vancouver-Quadra (Mr. Green), and to the hon. member for New Westminster (Mr. Mott). Before proceeding with my remarks I must say I endorse and support everything said in connection with this development by the hon. member for Vancouver-Quadra.

Not only have I heard of this development in this house this afternoon. On occasions when I have visited New Westminster I have had an opportunity to see the docks and watch the loading and unloading of ships. I have been told of the enterprise of the early residents of that city and of the council of 1913, which placed before the residents a bylaw calling for the expenditure of $500,000, which was a large sum of money for a city with a population of about 10,000 to raise. I think the developments in New Westminster, particularly the harbour developments, are a credit to the first and succeeding councils who have dealt with these matters. In fairness to the hon. member for New Westminster I should say that I have heard even his political opponents pay tribute to the work he did while mayor of New Westminster in promoting harbour improvements.

This bill appeals to this group, because it has to do with a development which resulted from co-operative community action, by the people themselves. Certainly these developments should receive the endorsation of all across this country, and the financial support that will be provided by this legislation. The port of New Westminster is of particular interest to the southeastern portion of British Columbia, because that is the port through which flow many of the products of the Consolidated Mining and Smelting Company, fruit from the orchards of the interior of British Columbia and other commodities produced in that area. They flow through that port because of the improved facilities provided through the enterprise of succeeding councils of that city. Therefore this group wholeheartedly supports and endorses this bill.

Topic:   NEW WESTMINSTER
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF BOUNDARIES AND PROVISION FOR LOAN
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LIB

George Matheson Murray

Liberal

Mr. G. M. Murray (Cariboo):

Mr. Speaker, I remember being in New Westminster in 1913. At that time there was very little navigation on the Fraser river, just the odd Indian canoe or a lumber barge going up to Fraser Mills. That great, broad, beautiful river was developed through the imagination and energy of the citizens of New Westminster. When this harbour board was first established the commissioners served without salary. It was a work of love on their part. The project had to succeed, and I am not surprised to learn the great number of deep sea ships that now anchor in the Fraser river. In my opinion there is no other harbour in the world with greater possibilities. Now that harbour is being extended many miles inland. It will now take in the Pitt river which flows into the Fraser. At the confluence of the Pitt and Fraser there is a natural site for a metropolis. The Pitt begins up in Pitt lake, and is a great fresh water flood. So I believe this bill is going to contribute greatly to the industrial development of British Columbia.

In this connection I would like to mention the work that has been done in the development of the Fraser river by the Daily Columbian of New Westminster, formerly owned and edited by a gentleman who was a very distinguished member of this house, the late Hon. J. D. Taylor, and now edited by Miss Dorothy Taylor. It was under the direction of Mr. Taylor that the incorporation of the harbour board was brought about, during the regime of Sir Robert Borden. Mr. Taylor was a native son of the Ottawa valley, one of those young Canadians with lots of courage who went west and made himself a fortune, also gaining great fame as a national speaker. This was one of the projects very dear to the heart of the late Mr. Taylor and his managing editor, the late J. W. Cunningham, who in those early days was drawing up blueprints and plans and publishing advertisements, trying to get new industries to locate in this little community. I think also of the late Mayor Keary and also of Hon. A. Wells Gray, who was mayor of the city and provincial minister of lands, who practically gave his life in community service to the royal city of New Westminster. So it gives me great pleasure to be able to offer a word of support for this resolution.

Motion agreed to and the house went into committee, Mr. Beaudoin in the chair.

Topic:   NEW WESTMINSTER
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF BOUNDARIES AND PROVISION FOR LOAN
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

Would the minister answer my question concerning any government contribution to the cost of erecting these docks?

Topic:   NEW WESTMINSTER
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF BOUNDARIES AND PROVISION FOR LOAN
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May 7, 1952