May 7, 1952


On the orders of the day:


CCF

Joseph William Noseworthy

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. J. W. Noseworthy (York South):

May

I direct a question to the Prime Minister? Is

Inquiries of the Ministry the government considering any action to prevent the substitution of a distillers' trophy for the Bessborough trophy as the top award in the dominion drama festival inaugurated in 1933 by the Earl of Bessborough, a former governor general of Canada?

Topic:   DOMINION DRAMA FESTIVAL
Subtopic:   QUESTION AS TO AWARDS
Sub-subtopic:   BESSBOROUGH TROPHY
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LIB

Louis Stephen St-Laurent (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Right Hon. L. S. St. Laurent (Prime Minister):

The hon. gentleman sent me notice of his intention to ask this question, and the answer is as follows:

The question of awards and financial administration for the dominion drama festival is of course a matter which comes under the full control of the authorities of the festival.

In the report of the royal commission on national development in the arts, letters and sciences there were recommendations dealing with cultural activities such as those of the dominion drama festival, the implementation of which will require legislative action. This special matter is related to a good many other similar activities, and it is not possible to deal with them all at once. The government is continuing to give consideration to the recommendations of the report of the Massey commission, and, when decisions as to the appropriate action to be recommended to parliament are made, they will be announced in the usual way.

Topic:   DOMINION DRAMA FESTIVAL
Subtopic:   QUESTION AS TO AWARDS
Sub-subtopic:   BESSBOROUGH TROPHY
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CHEESE INDUSTRY

QUESTION AS TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ACTION TO AVERT CRISIS


On the orders of the day:


CCF

Joseph William Noseworthy

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. J. W. Noseworthy (York South):

Will

the Minister of Agriculture tell the house what provision the government has made or is about to make to avert the pending crisis in the Cheddar cheese industry?

Topic:   CHEESE INDUSTRY
Subtopic:   QUESTION AS TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ACTION TO AVERT CRISIS
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Right Hon. J. G. Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture):

This morning I discussed the whole question with Hon. Thomas Kennedy in Toronto.

Topic:   CHEESE INDUSTRY
Subtopic:   QUESTION AS TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ACTION TO AVERT CRISIS
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CIVILIAN WAR PENSIONS

INCREASES IN BENEFITS TO OTHER THAN MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES

LIB

Hugues Lapointe (Minister of Veterans Affairs)

Liberal

Hon. Hugues Lapointe (Minister of Veterans Affairs) moved

the second reading of Bill No. 191, to amend the Civilian War Pensions and Allowances Act.

Topic:   CIVILIAN WAR PENSIONS
Subtopic:   INCREASES IN BENEFITS TO OTHER THAN MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES
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Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and referred to the special committee on veterans affairs. 1960 HOUSE OF Canadian National Railways CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS


PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.

LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Hon. Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport) moved

the second reading of Bill No. 192, an act respecting the construction of a line of railway by Canadian National Railway Company from Terrace to Kitimat, in the province of British Columbia.

He said: Yesterday during the resolution stage of this measure I dealt with a number of questions, but I think the house will expect me to say something on the bill which is now before the house.

As I indicated on the resolution, the bill has to do first with the authority to construct the line; next, with the authority to issue securities and also to make temporary loans. By this bill the governor in council is authorized to provide for the construction and completion by the Canadian National Railways before November 1, 1954, of a line of railway approximately 46 miles in length from Terrace to Kitimat in the province of British Columbia. The cost of the line is estimated at $10 million which will be financed by the government.

The financial provisions of the bill authorize the railway company to issue securities not exceeding $10 million which may be guaranteed by the government. Provision is also made for temporary loans not exceeding $10 million to be made by the Minister of Finance to the railway company to enable the construction to proceed without the delay attending the borrowing of the necessary funds from other sources.

Clause 8 of the bill authorizes, and in fact requires, the Minister of Transport to make a report to parliament annually in the same manner as reports are made under the other legislation concerning branch lines passed previously by parliament.

The Canadian National Railway Company has entered into an agreement with the Aluminum Company of Canada under which the Canadian National Railway agrees, subject to the provisions of enabling legislation, to complete the railway, and the Aluminum company is to provide traffic amounting to $1 million a year for a period of ten years or, in the alternative, make payments to the railway company of one-third of any deficiency below the $1 million. If the Aluminum company is required to make any payments to the railway company, refunds will be made to the Aluminum company on the basis of one-third of any excess of gross revenue earned by the railway company over the $1 million in any year. This refunding provision may be extended for a further period

of ten years, but in any case the amount refunded by the railway company to the Aluminum company shall not exceed the total payments made by the Aluminum company to the railway.

The Aluminum company has also agreed to make available a substantial amount of electric power to other industries locating in that region.

I should like to mention that in addition to the rail traffic to be secured in connection with the Aluminum company project, Kitimat valley has about 2J billion feet of accessible timber estimated to be capable of yielding 22,500 tons of rail traffic annually with gross earnings in the second five years of operation of the line of over $342,000 per year. There is also an expected fisheries development in the processing of chilled and frozen fish which would yield about 650 tons of freight per year, or an annual revenue of about $32,000.

The estimates of rail traffic indicate that average annual gross revenue for the first five years will amount to $1,854,800, and average annual operating expenses will be $1,503,700, resulting in average annual net operating revenue of $351,100. Interest on cost of construction is estimated at $350,000, leaving a net revenue for the first five years of $1,100.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

Is that per year, or for the five-year period?

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

That is for the five-year period. This is computed on a basis of five years at $1,100.

For the second five-year period, average annual gross revenue is estimated at $2,828,200 and operating expenses at $2,155,000, resulting in average annual net operating revenue of $673,200. After deduction of $350,000 for interest the net annual revenue for the second five-year period of operation is estimated at $323,200.

Owing to the difficult terrain over which the line must be constructed, the cost of construction will be heavy, but the building of the line is so plainly in the national interest that this bill should commend itself to aV members of this house.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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CCF

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. H. W. Herridge (Kootenay West):

Mr. Speaker, last night and this afternoon I listened with interest to the minister in his explanation of the purposes of this bill, and I also listened with great interest to the remarks made by the hon. member for Skeena (Mr. Applewhaite) who, I am sure, is pleased to see this additional development in his constituency.

We in this group support this bill, first of all because we recognize that it is the result of increased development and production in British Columbia. We are pleased to see this further extension of the Canadian National Railway system. We hope that this production and development in British Columbia and in Canada will make it easier still for this government to provide improved social welfare services to the people of Canada.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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SC

Solon Earl Low

Social Credit

Mr. Solon E. Low (Peace River):

Mr. Speaker, I had intended to say something on the resolution stage yesterday, but it was impossible for me to get into the discussion. I have only just a minute or two before I have to attend a meeting of the external affairs committee but I think I should indicate the position which my group takes toward this bill.

We think that it is a fortunate thing for any part of Canada to see the development that is taking place in the area of Kitimat in the constituency of my friend the hon. member for Skeena (Mr. Applewhaite). We are glad to see that development. It augurs well for the future of Canada; it will doubtless make for a stronger and better Canada.

When a railway is to be built from Terrace to Kitimat, we think it is only natural that we should look to the Canadian National Railways to build it. I think that is a proper procedure. I just want the minister to know that we support the bill and approve the help which the government is giving by way of assistance in financing, making advances on loan, and so forth.

There is one thing I do not intend to say much about; when I think of the building of this line of railway by the Canadian National Railways it makes me think that some consideration ought to be given to the extension of the Canadian National from the Peace river country to the coast, to link up perhaps with this very road. Were that done I am quite sure that we would see much greater development than is possible by the construction of these piecemeal lines.

I just wanted the minister to know that we are happy to see this line being built, in view of the development that will result from it in the Kitimat area.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Howard C. Green (Vancouver-Quadra):

Mr. Speaker, the bill as presented to the house is in practically the same terms as the bill which was passed last year to authorize the construction of a railway from Sherridon to Lynn Lake in the province of Manitoba. I notice that there are one or two differences, but they are not of great 55704-124

Canadian National Railways importance. I presume that this is a standard type of bill authorizing the construction of a branch line.

I was pleased to hear the minister say today that the Aluminum company have undertaken some obligation in connection with this construction. He did not make that fact so clear last night, but it appears from his remarks today that they are undertaking some financial obligation, as was done by Sherritt Gordon Mines Limited in the case of the Lynn Lake line.

However in the course of his remarks today the minister did not deal with my query of last night as to why the Department of Defence Production are not assisting in this construction, as they did in connection with the Lynn Lake line. The figures given today for the cost of operating the line do not indicate that there is likely to be very much profit. Some pretty close budgeting has been done-some pretty close figuring-on a scheme of this kind, which has not yet commenced. The minister has announced that during the first five years after the railway is built there will be a profit of $1,100 for the five-year period. I hope he is right. But it probably will not be any more, or he would have said so. Then, even for the second five years the net operating revenue is estimated at only $323,000.

I submit those figures show that the Canadian National Railways should have assistance from the Department of Defence Production in this construction. If a certain amount of assistance were given it would be possible for the railway to operate at a profit. Surely this great production of aluminum is of value in our defence preparations. That other department paid last year almost $5 million, or nearly one-third of the total cost of the construction of the Lynn Lake line.

In addition, I notice from the annual report of the Department of Defence Production, which we received today, that they are helping with other developments, none of which is more important than this Alcan development. For example we find at page 32 of the report, under the non-ferrous metals division-and I presume this would be the division under which aluminum would come -the following paragraph:

The division also kept informed of, and assisted industry in, the development of Canada's natural resources, in so far as non-ferrous metals, iron ore, and some non-metallic minerals, such as asbestos and quartz crystals, are concerned. In addition to arranging for priority assistance in this field, the division took an active part in several projects undertaken with a view to increasing production of certain strategic materials.

Canadian National Railways Aluminum, of course, is a strategic material. The report continues:

Among these was the reactivation of the Emerald tungsten mine in British Columbia ensuring adequate supplies to meet Canada's defence needs. To stimulate the production of cobalt, an incentive buying price schedule for northern Ontario ores was instituted by the government early in 1951 and guaranteed for three years.

In fairness to the Canadian National Railways I do hope that consideration will be given to having the Department of Defence Production pay some of the cost of the construction of this line.

Incidentally, the point raised by the hon. member for Peace River (Mr. Low) is also very interesting; and it would be helpful if the minister could tell the house what thought has been given to extending the railway in the Peace river area down to Prince George in British Columbia. This would complete the picture of railway transportation in that part of British Columbia. This development has been much too long delayed, and I hope there are some plans in contemplation for this other construction.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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LIB

George Matheson Murray

Liberal

Mr. G. M. Murray (Cariboo):

Mr. Speaker,

I heartily agree with the hon. member for Vancouver-Quadra (Mr. Green) who has suggested that assistance should be given by the Department of Defence Production.

This discussion brings to mind an historic moment in the history of Canada. In 1874 discussions took place in the House of Commons as to the final plan or route for the Canadian Pacific Railway. After everybody had had his say, Sir John A. Macdonald, the great leader of the party so well represented by the hon. member for Vancouver-Quadra, rose in his place to speak. At that time Sir John was in opposition. His speech, as mine will be on this occasion, was brief: I have at least that in common with the great first prime minister of Canada.

After consultation with certain people he said, "There is no doubt that the road should go along the line discovered by Alexander Mackenzie, and that it should pass down through the Peace river area, through the Nechako country, and so on." He put his finger on the map, where Fort George was located, and said, "That is the centre; that is where the rivers meet; that is where the trails cross. That some day will be a great city." Fort George is today Prince George; and of course it is an outstanding centre in the Cariboo electoral district which I have the honour to represent. I mention it in this connection because the Cariboo country is the

hinterland to Prince Rupert, Kitimat, Vancouver and the other great coastal ports on the Pacific.

I am supporting this measure because u brings to fruition the dream that, no doubt, that great pioneer statesman had of the development of the interior of British Columbia. I refer not so much to the development that has taken place along the 49th parallel in the southwest corner of British Columbia, but rather to the heart of the country where most of the wealth is located, where we see the great plains and the great timber areas, where we find the waterpower and the minerals.

That is where we should have a metropolis, the place where Sir John placed his finger, at the confluence of the Nechako and the Fraser, the site of the present city of Prince George.

The building of this industry at Kitimat is probably the greatest event in northern British Columbia since the building of the first railway. I commend the minister upon his having appreciated quickly the need for rail extensions there, and the building of this Kitimat cut-off. I would hope that later he might see his way clear to have the Canadian National Railways build a branch into the Peace river country. I know that Premier Johnson of British Columbia has that in mind. The people of British Columbia are united in their desire to see a railway in the Peace river country, the great agricultural area in which few people live, but a place where all kinds of grains and fodder can be grown. Indeed, that area can produce most of the products grown here in Ontario, with the possible exception of tree fruits.

That area remains to be tapped by rail. If a town is built at Kitimat, and if this branch railway is to be as profitable as indicated, then there must be back of it and back of Kitimat an extensive farming industry. There must be dairy and other products to supply a big industrial population. Recently we had a discovery of oil and large quantities of natural gas in the Peace river country. I believe that today consideration is being given to running branches from the proposed pipe line to Vancouver to serve Prince Rupert, Kitimat and other places on the northern Pacific coast.

I think also of the great development which has taken place in the interior of British Columbia north of the 60th parallel within the confines of the riding represented by the hon. member for Yukon-Mackenzie River (Mr. Simmons). During the last year or so there have been vast developments in all kinds of

minerals, particularly uranium, oil and natural gas. That country has no rail connection with the Pacific coast and I visualize the construction of a line, possibly down through Grimshaw in Alberta, the continuation of the Northern Alberta railway over into the Peace river bloc in British Columbia, with a further extension from there by Canadian National Railways to Pacific tidewater.

These great smelters and refineries will just naturally be located around Prince Rupert, Kitimat and other points on the Pacific coast. I think it would be wrong to think otherwise. The construction of railroads in Canada is a matter of great national importance today, just as it was in 1874. We are entering a new era of discovery, mechanical devices, invention and general development.

Last night we had as a guest in this House of Commons the president of the Canadian Pacific Air Lines Limited. In the early thirties when so many young men were having to go into the unemployment camps wondering what they were going to do, Grant McCon-achie thought that it would be a good idea to become an aviator. He had been firing a locomotive on the Canadian Northern railroad. He learned to fly an aeroplane and went up into the north country where he flew out furs, fish and everything that offered. He carried these commodities down to Prince George, Edmonton and other rail centres.

From that small beginning he developed a great business. I am very happy that I had some little part in getting him launched out of Ashcroft with the first air mail service out of the Cariboo. From that small beginning he built up a great air fleet which now spans the Pacific to Japan, China, Australia, New Zealand as well as points in South America. Great wealth has been brought to this country through the operation of that air service as part of our transportation picture now being worked out in the northwest and toward the completion of which the Minister of Transport (Mr. Chevrier) is making such a great contribution.

Topic:   PROVISION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LINE FROM TERRACE TO KITIMAT, B.C.
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May 7, 1952