November 9, 1951

NORTH ATLANTIC TREATY ORGANIZATION

RATIFICATION OF STATUS OF NATO FORCES

LIB

Jean Lesage (Parliamentary Assistant to the Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. Jean Lesage (Parliamentary Assistant to the Secretary of Slate for External Affairs):

Mr. Speaker, since the orders of the day may be delayed, let me say that last night in answer to a question put by the hon. member for Eglinton (Mr. Fleming) I said, as reported at page 861 of Hansard, that the agreement concerning the status of NATO forces had been ratified by Denmark and by Norway. In saying that I made an error. It is the protocol on the accession of Greece and Turkey to NATO that has been ratified by Denmark and Norway. We have not been advised yet by the government of the United States, which is the depository of both agreements on the status of NATO forces, and on the privileges and immunities of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's national representatives and international staff, that any member country has ratified either agreement.

Topic:   NORTH ATLANTIC TREATY ORGANIZATION
Subtopic:   RATIFICATION OF STATUS OF NATO FORCES
Sub-subtopic:   CORRECTION OF STATEMENT IN DEBATE ON RESOLUTION
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COMBINES LEGISLATION

PERSONNEL OF JOINT COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER INTERIM REPORT

LIB

Stuart Sinclair Garson (Solicitor General of Canada; Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Hon. Stuart S. Garson (Minister of Justice):

Mr. Speaker, by leave of the house I move:

That Messrs. Beaudry, Boucher, Carroll, Carter, Cauchon, Churchill, Croll, Dickey, Mrs. Fairclough, Fleming, Fulton, Garson, Gillis, Harkness, Harrison, Hees, Jutras, Mott, Murray (Oxford), McLean (Huron-Perth), Roberge, Shaw, Sinclair, Stuart (Charlotte), Thatcher, Welbourn be appointed to act on behalf of the House of Commons as members of the joint special committee established Tuesday, November 6, 1951, to consider the interim report of the committee appointed to study combines legislation, tabled in the House of Commons, Friday, October 12, 1951, and to consider appropriate

amendments to the Combines Investigation Act based thereon.

That a message be sent to the Senate informing Their Honours that the above members have been appointed to act on behalf of the Commons on the said joint committee of both houses.

Topic:   COMBINES LEGISLATION
Subtopic:   PERSONNEL OF JOINT COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER INTERIM REPORT
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CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles:

I fear there is one error, one which occurred to me as I listened to the reading of the names. I sent the names for our group, in writing, to the government whip, and I am sure the names I submitted were

Messrs. Maclnnis and Thatcher instead of Messrs. Gillis and Thatcher. I am prepared either to move an amendment or to suggest that the minister change the name of Mr, Gillis to that of Mr. Maclnnis.

Topic:   COMBINES LEGISLATION
Subtopic:   PERSONNEL OF JOINT COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER INTERIM REPORT
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LIB

Stuart Sinclair Garson (Solicitor General of Canada; Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Garson:

I would have no objection; but how would it be if we leave it now. These are the names I got from the whip. If necessary we could make a subsequent motion on Monday to change the names.

Topic:   COMBINES LEGISLATION
Subtopic:   PERSONNEL OF JOINT COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER INTERIM REPORT
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Motion agreed to.


LIB

Elie Beauregard (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

May I inform the house I have received a message from the Senate setting forth the names of those members of the Senate who have been appointed to consider and to study the interim report. Perhaps it would be satisfactory if I were to read those names. They are Senators Aseltine, Beaubien, Burchill, Dupuis, Fogo, Godbout, Golding, Hawkins, Horner, Lambert, Pratt and Vaillan-court.

Topic:   COMBINES LEGISLATION
Subtopic:   PERSONNEL OF JOINT COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER INTERIM REPORT
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REPORTS AND PAPERS


Classification of loans of Canadian chartered banks as of September 29, 1951, Statutes of Canada 1944-45, chapter 30; and classification of deposits in Canadian chartered banks as of September 29, 1951, Statutes of Canada 1944-45, chapter 30.-Mr. Abbott.


CANADIAN WHEAT BOARD ACT

PAYMENT FOR FARM STORAGE OF GRAIN

CCF

Hazen Robert Argue

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. H. R. Argue (Assiniboia) moved

for leave to introduce Bill No. 16, to amend the Canadian Wheat Board Act, 1935.

Topic:   CANADIAN WHEAT BOARD ACT
Subtopic:   PAYMENT FOR FARM STORAGE OF GRAIN
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?

Some hon. Members:

Explain.

Topic:   CANADIAN WHEAT BOARD ACT
Subtopic:   PAYMENT FOR FARM STORAGE OF GRAIN
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CCF

Hazen Robert Argue

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Argue:

This bill is to amend the

Canadian Wheat Board Act, 1935, by deleting the words "if directed by regulation" from subsection 2 of section 21. The effect of this change is to ensure that producers in the designated area will be paid the regular storage charge for grain stored on the farm. The determination of the date from which payment is to commence is left to the Canadian wheat board, but the payment of such storage charges to producers is by this new subsection made compulsory.

Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.

Committee on Radio Broadcasting RADIO BROADCASTING

Topic:   CANADIAN WHEAT BOARD ACT
Subtopic:   PAYMENT FOR FARM STORAGE OF GRAIN
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APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER

ANNUAL REPORT AND AMENDMENTS TO THE CANADIAN BROADCASTING ACT

LIB

James Joseph McCann (Minister of National Revenue)

Liberal

Hon. J. J. McCann (Minister of National Revenue) moved:

Committee on Radio Broadcasting national broadcasting system be given the power and resources sufficient for its great national responsibilities.

The commission very carefully considered various proposals for changing the methods of control of broadcasting in this country.

I shall not try here to summarize its reasons for judgment against a new method of control. Although I think members who have not done so will find it very interesting to read these reasons in full, I should like to read its first recommendation on broadcasting summarizing its opinions on the kind of system we need. It is as follows:

We therefore recommend:

That the grant of the privilege of radio broadcasting in Canada continue to be under the control of the national government; that the control of the national broadcasting system continue to be vested in a single body responsible to parliament; that the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation as now constituted be that authority and continue to provide directly by its operations and indirectly by its control of the operations of others a national radio broadcasting service free from partisan influence.

The recommendation in effect summarized just what in the past successive governments and all political parties and parliamentary committees through the years thought to be the best kind of system for Canada. This government has been glad to have the assertions from this great commission report supporting the principles of the present system in Canada.

The government has been aware for some time of the critical financial situation into which the national system has been brought by economic changes, with prices and costs of all kinds rising greatly in the past fifteen years. The C.B.C. could not be expected to be a unique organization that could continue to operate with its main rates of revenue the same as in 1938. The government, however, wished to have the report of the Massey commission, and time for consideration of it, before proposing to parliament changes in the revenue structure of the C.B.C. The commission suggested that to maintain its present services and make some needed improvements the C.B.C. needs annual income in the next five years equal to one dollar per head of the total population of Canada. It suggested that any payments from public funds be covered by statute so that there could be no question of any government of the day possibly having political influence on the system through controlling the amount that annually might be proposed for the system. The commission recommended that the present receiving set licence fee be maintained and that payments be made by statute out of public funds to bring the total income up to the necessary minimum level.

The financial provision in the bill which will presently be before the house is designed to bring the income of the corporation up to about the equivalent of one dollar per head of the population. It does so by providing by law for the payment of a fixed sum of $6,250,000 each year to the corporation for five years. The sum of $4,750,000 is provided in the bill for the first year, 195152, because the C.B.C. has already received an interim grant of $1,500,000 this year, and the two together make the sum of $6,250,000. You will remember that in the estimates passed in June there was a grant of $1,500,000 to the C.B.C. These statutory payments, together with receipts from licence fees and from commercial revenues which should be reduced somewhat to carry out recommendations of the commission, should bring the corporation an annual sum about the equivalent of the one dollar per head figure. This would enable the corporation to maintain its present services and standards. It would also make possible in the five years ahead some of the needed improvements and extensions. It must be realized, however, that the corporation will still not be in a position to meet all the requests for service it has, or that will be made on it. The corporation, however, will have a pretty accurate knowledge of what revenues to expect over the next five years. It will have to plan its operations and development carefully over the five-year period to ensure that the most essential things are done. It is to be expected that the corporation on the new basis will have an operating surplus for the first two or three years of the period, but out of this surplus it must make some provision for capital expenditures that will be necessary ahead, for paying off some of its debts, and for meeting operating commitments throughout the period. The income of the corporation will still be relatively small in comparison with the income of broadcasting systems in many other countries and in relation to the size of Canada, and our need to broadcast in two languages. The system, however, will have a basis of revenue roughly equal to what it had before the war, adjusted for the increase in cost levels in Canada.

The royal commission recommended that the board of governors of the corporation be enlarged in order to make it more widely representative. This recommendation is met in the bill that will come before the house by the provision to increase the number of governors from nine to eleven.

The commission made a recommendation regarding a right of notice for broadcasters and right of hearing on matters directly affecting them. Several clauses in the bill

give practical and concrete application regarding the matter of right of notice and of hearing. There is provision that by law the corporation must, before ordering the suspension of the licence of a station, give notice to the licensee of the alleged violation and provide for an opportunity for him to be heard. There is also a new proposed subsection providing that the corporation must give formal notice and reasonable opportunity for hearing representations before making or amending regulations affecting private stations. Another subsection provides that the corporation give legal notice before considering applications regarding licences referred to it by the Department of Transport.

Under its own procedure the corporation has for some years given due notice in such cases and held public hearings. These new provisions will lay legal obligations on the corporation in connection with notice and hearings.

The commission also recommended that persons engaged in broadcasting in Canada directly and adversely affected by final decision by the board of governors, on any matter in which the board has final authority, have the right of appeal to a federal court against substantial miscarriage of justice. The bill to come before the house provides that where the corporation orders the suspension of a licence of a private station, the licensee may appeal to the Exchequer Court of Canada on any question of law. The power to order suspension of a licence is the chief final sanction which the corporation has with regard to private stations.

The commission also make another recommendation regarding ways of ensuring that private radio stations in Canada employ more Canadian talent. As a measure in this direction the bill to come before the house would strengthen the position of the corporation by giving it specific powers to make regulations to promote and ensure the greater use of Canadian talent by both C.B.C. and private stations, and to obtain information from stations needed for carrying out its supervisory duties.

While we are proposing amendments to the Canadian Broadcasting Act I have mentioned, based on recommendations of the royal commission, we have taken the opportunity in this bill to propose some other minor amendments which seem advisable in view of changed conditions since the act was passed in 1936, and for purposes of clarification.

There are several changes in wording for the purpose of making clear when reference is being made to the Minister of Transport

Committee on Radio Broadcasting and when to the minister designated for carrying out the duties under the act of dealing with the C.B.C.

It is proposed to change the period of office for the chairman of the corporation from 3 years to 10 years. The post now is one which requires the occupant to give up all other connections. It seems, therefore, in fairness that occupants of the post should have a tenure of reasonable length of time. The longer period will be more in line with other important public positions, and would seem proper in the interests of holding or appointing to the post men of the necessary calibre. The longer period should also provide for extra public assurance of the impartiality of the chairman.

Another change in wording is to clear away an anomaly in connection with the pension plan of the corporation. Under the present wording of the act it is provided that the corporation may have a pension plan for its "employees" and, of course, has had a pension plan for a number of years. The word "employee" is used in the act, and under a legal technicality it has been ruled that the chairman is not an employee of the corporation but is defined as a "member" of the corporation. The amendment proposed would remove any legal doubt that the chairman or any other member of the corporation who worked full time at regular salary could properly participate in the pension plan.

Another amendment raises from $10,000 to $25,000 the size of commitments by the corporation for which approval by the governor in council is necessary. Because of changes in prices the real size of a $25,000 transaction today is only about the equivalent of a $10,000 transaction in 1936 when the act was passed. This amendment will save some delays and a good deal of paper work that has not been found to be necessary under present conditions, but will still provide for a check by the government on any large individual financial commitments by the corporation.

As I have said, the main provisions of the bill to come before the house are to give effect as considered advisable to the recommendations of the Massey commission which involve legislative action. A number of other recommendations of the commission can be implemented only by the C.B.C. itself. I believe the committee as well as studying this bill may also wish to study these other recommendations of the commission, and the plans of the corporation for meeting them.

Topic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER
Subtopic:   ANNUAL REPORT AND AMENDMENTS TO THE CANADIAN BROADCASTING ACT
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November 9, 1951