October 26, 1951

CONCURRENCE IN SECOND REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON PROCEDURE

LIB

Elie Beauregard (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

May I be permitted to present the second report of the committee which was appointed on October 9, 1951, to consider with Mr. Speaker the procedure of this house for the purpose of suggesting any changes that may be desirable to assure the more expeditious dispatch of public business.

Your committee, pursuant to clause 2 of its first report, concurred in on October 12, 1951, relating to the hours of the sitting of the house, held a further meeting on October 25, 1951, to consider the results of the two weeks' experiment, and recommends as follows:

That the following new hours of sitting be given a trial on an experimental basis during the next two weeks:

For the week commencing on October 28, Mr. Speaker take the chair at 2.30 o'clock, p.m., on each sitting day and adjourn the house at 11 o'clock, p.m., without question put, unless the closure rule (standing order 39) be then in operation; except on Monday, Wednesday and Friday when the hour of adjournment will be 6.30 o'clock, p.m.; with provision for intermission from 6.30 o'clock, p.m. to 8 o'clock, p.m. on Tuesday and Thursday; and, subject to any special orders, the hour set aside for private and public bills under standing order 15 remain the same on Tuesday and be from 5.30 o'clock, p.m. to 6.30 o'clock, p.m., on Friday.

For the week commencing on November 4, Mr. Speaker take the chair at 2.30 o'clock, p.m., on each sitting day and adjourn the house at 10.30 o'clock, p.m., without question put, unless the closure rule (standing order 39) be then in operation; except on Wednesday when the hour of adjournment will be 6 o'clock, p.m., and Friday when the hour of adjournment will be 7 o'clock, p.m.; with provision for the usual intermission from 6 o'clock, p.m., to 8 o'clock, p.m. on Monday, Tuesday and Thursday; and, subject to any special orders, the hour set aside for private and public bills under standing order 15 remain as at present on Tuesday and be from 6 o'clock, p.m. to 7 o'clock, p.m., on Friday.

That toward the end of the second week your committee consider the results of the four weeks' experiment and bring in recommendations based thereon with respect to the balance of the present session.

Topic:   CONCURRENCE IN SECOND REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON PROCEDURE
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LIB-PRO

William Gilbert Weir (Chief Government Whip; Whip of the Liberal Party)

Liberal Progressive

Mr. W. G. Weir (Portage-Neepawa):

Mr. Speaker, by leave of the house I beg to move, seconded by the hon. member for Grenville-Dundas (Mr. Casselman):

That the second report of the select committee appointed on October 9, 1951, to consider with Mr. Speaker the procedure of this house for the purpose of suggesting any changes that may be desirable to assure the more expeditious dispatch of public business and presented this day be now concurred in.

Topic:   CONCURRENCE IN SECOND REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON PROCEDURE
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Motion agreed to.


WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCES

MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 31

CCF

Percy Ellis Wright

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. P. E. Wright (Melfort):

Before you

proceed, Mr. Speaker, I wish to ask leave, seconded by the hon. member for Cape Breton South (Mr. Gillis), to move the adjournment of the house under standing order 31, for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the urgent need for consideration at this session of the plight of war veterans in receipt of war veterans allowances, with particular reference to the inadequacy of the amounts they are receiving in the light of today's cost of living. The urgency of this motion is based on the need of bringing to the attention of the government the necessity for action at this session.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 31
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LIB

John Sylvester Aloysius Sinnott

Liberal

Mr. Sinnotl:

A political dodge.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 31
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CCF

Percy Ellis Wright

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Wright:

Tell that to your war

veterans.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 31
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LIB

Elie Beauregard (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Standing order No. 31 says:

Leave to make a motion for the adjournment of the house (when made for the purpose of discussing a matter of urgent public importance) must be asked after the ordinary daily routine of business (standing order 15) has been concluded and before notices of motions or orders of the day are entered upon.

I might say that, unfortunately, I was under the misapprehension that only motions under routine proceedings could be made today and I informed another hon. member of this house that his motion should be made immediately before the orders of the day are called. Under those circumstances, although the rule states to the contrary that only one motion may be made at a sitting, I shall also-hear the other motion.

I must decide whether the motion of the1 hon. member for Melfort should be proceeded! with. Standing order 31 states in paragraph (3):

He-

430 HOUSE OF

War Veterans Allowances

That is, the mover of the motion.

-then hands a written statement of the matter proposed to be discussed to Mr. Speaker, who, if he thinks it in order, and of urgent public importance . . .

And so on. I must decide whether it is of urgent public importance. Under section 174, urgency is defined as follows:

"Urgency" within this rule does not apply to the matter itself, but it means "urgency of debate," when the ordinary opportunities provided by the rules of the house do not permit the subject to be brought on early enough and public interest demands that discussion take place immediately.

The subject matter of the motion was discussed in the house yesterday, and we are still debating the speech from the throne. Under the sessional order of this house, the speech from the throne must be taken up on Monday and Wednesday of next week. An opportunity will then be given to discuss the matter referred to in the motion that has been made. Although the matter is an extremely important one, in my opinion it is not one which comes within the rule of urgency as set out in standing order 31.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 31
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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. M. J. Coldwell (Roselown-Biggar):

Mr. Speaker, may I say a word before you make a ruling. I respectfully suggest to you that a number of the members of the house who are interested in this matter have already spoken on the address. This matter now arises because of the statement made by the Minister of Veterans Affairs (Mr. Lapointe) a day or *two ago to the effect that the question would not come before the house until next session.

As to the matter having been raised in the debate in connection with old age pensions, may I say it arose only incidentally, and I do not think that it was debated as it deserved to be debated, having regard to the urgency of this question at the present time. If we are to take the Minister of Veterans Affairs at his word, no opportunity for debate will be provided by the government until next session. Many hon. members of the house have already spoken on the address and are therefore debarred from speaking again on this matter. As to the debate on old age pensions, this matter could only be incidental to the discussion.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 31
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LIB

Elie Beauregard (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

I recognize the point of what the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar (Mr. Coldwell) has said with respect to those who have spoken on the motion for an address in reply to the speech from the throne. But I would point out that most of those who have spoken-in fact, this statement applies with few exceptions-have spoken on the amendment to the amendment. There will therefore be given to practically all the members of this

house an opportunity to speak on the main amendment and on the motion. I feel satisfied that there will be an early opportunity for hon. members to speak on this matter.

As I said, I informed another hon. member today that a motion under standing order 31 should be made immediately before orders of the day are called. Under the circumstances, and this is in no way to be taken as a precedent, I am going to allow the hon. member to make his motion.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 31
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AVAILABILITY OF FREIGHT CARS-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 31

PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. J. G. Diefenbaker (Lake Centre):

Mr. Speaker, as a preliminary to the motion, if I could have the indulgence of the house for a moment or two, I should like to point out the serious, almost tragic, situation in the western provinces in connection with the marketing of the wheat crop; and I do so in no partisan sense.

Topic:   AVAILABILITY OF FREIGHT CARS-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 31
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?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh.

Topic:   AVAILABILITY OF FREIGHT CARS-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 31
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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

Possibly my hon. friends think differently than I do, but I do it in no partisan sense. I do it for the purpose of bringing to -the attention of the house, and permitting debate on the subject, the need for something being done at once to meet a crisis that faces the western farmer in connection with the delivery and storage of his wheat.

Freight car supplies are far below what they should be.

Topic:   AVAILABILITY OF FREIGHT CARS-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 31
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?

Some hon. Members:

Order.

Topic:   AVAILABILITY OF FREIGHT CARS-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 31
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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

Many farmers have thousands of bushels of wheat which they are unable to market because of a serious discrimination that is taking place against certain districts and areas, although I do not say that it is intentional. Having said that, I ask leave, seconded by the hon. member for Souris (Mr. Ross), to move the adjournment of the house under standing order 31, to discuss the imperative need of immediate action to be taken by the government to alleviate the economic hardship being caused to many farmers in the prairie provinces and the calamitous losses in crop yield and grade that face them, unless effective action is taken by the federal authorities to meet this problem and to assure that many areas and districts in the prairie provinces that are being denied a just and fair share of the available freight cars and storage facilities shall be assured of an equitable allocation and distribution of such freight cars.

Topic:   AVAILABILITY OF FREIGHT CARS-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 31
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LIB

Elie Beauregard (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

This motion is made under standing order 31, the terms of which are becoming quite familiar to hon. members of this house. As hon. members know, the member making the motion hands a written statement to Mr. Speaker, who must decide two things. He must decide whether it is in order and whether it is of urgent public importance. The urgency referred to is the urgency of debate; it is not the importance of the matter itself that is to be decided, but whether debate should take place now rather than at some later time; whether it is so important that the debate should take place now, and that an early opportunity will not be given under the ordinary rules of the house to debate this motion.

May I refer hon. members again to paragraph 174 of Beauchesne's third edition which reads as follows:

"Urgency" within this rule does not apply to the matter itself, but it means "urgency of debate," when the ordinary opportunities provided by the rules of the house do not permit the subject to be brought on early enough and public interest demands that discussion take place immediately.

As hon. members are aware, under a sessional order of this house the speech from the throne will be considered on both Monday and Wednesday of next week. At that time a discussion of this matter would be in order. Although it is an extremely important matter, in my opinion it is not one of urgency within the rules of the house, in view of the fact that an early opportunity will be given to hon. members to discuss the question raised. Under the circumstances, I cannot allow the motion to stand at this time.

Topic:   AVAILABILITY OF FREIGHT CARS-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 31
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RAILWAY LEGISLATION

October 26, 1951