September 5, 1950

LIB

Brooke Claxton (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Claxion:

Perhaps I can be of some assistance to the hon. member for Vancouver East (Mr. Maclnnis) and also try to clarify what is purely a question of the right and orderly way of getting on with the business of the house.

I have looked up the procedure that was followed in 1941, 1942, 1943 and 1944, and I find that, although there were minor variations, by and large the procedure followed was that the minister of finance moved the resolution to introduce the war appropriation bill, and then either instantly got into committee and when in committee produced a break-down; or else on other occasions, such as the one mentioned by the leader of the opposition (Mr. Drew) in 1944, introduced not a break-down at all but a division between departments. That is what was done in 1944, as reported at page 392 of Hansard, referred to by the leader of the opposition, in which the items for national defence were given under three departments: army services,

naval services, air services and then sundry services, one line each, which is no breakdown at all.

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
Permalink
PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

Of course it is.

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Brooke Claxton (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Claxion:

Each other department was given in one line as a rule, corresponding to the navy. Then we went on in the Department of National Defence, at page 393; and that year, as the leader of the opposition has said, there were given about two pages of break-down in the usual form. But in the years 1941, 1942 and 1943 the procedure was that when they got into committee the minister in charge of the estimates for each

IMr. Knowles.]

department gave a break-down in committee. It therefore appeared to us that that seemed to be the right and orderly way to do it. If that course had commended itself to this house, we would have gone into committee after any general statement had been made, and one second after being in committee the break-down would have been circulated to hon. members, as I think was done in 1941, 1942 and 1943 by the ministers of defence.

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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PC

Karl Kenneth Homuth

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Homuth:

But you cannot do it, because you have not got it.

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Brooke Claxton (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Claxion:

Of course we have it.

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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PC

Karl Kenneth Homuth

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Komuth:

Then why don't you give it to us?

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Brooke Claxton (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Claxton:

It is just a question of when you get it, so that we can get on with the business of the house. I do not regard this as a matter of the slightest seriousness. I do riot know why the members of the opposition are making any point of it. But since they do, by all means let them have it now, and let us get on with the business.

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

On a matter of privilege,

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Defence has just stated that the only details were given on page 392 of Hansard and given in a single line.

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Brooke Claxton (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Claxton:

No. Apparently the leader of the opposition did not hear me. I went on and referred to the details given at pages 395 and 396.

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
Permalink
PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

No, they are given on page-

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Brooke Claxton (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Claxton:

Pages 393 and 394.

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

Yes; they are given in very considerable detail, and not just in single lines, and they are given under the break-down.

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Brooke Claxton (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Claxton:

That is precisely what I said.

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

They are given in a measure of break-down that makes it possible to ask questions, and that is what we should have now. That was given before there was any discussion, and before it passed into committee. .

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
Permalink
LIB

Brooke Claxton (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Claxton:

That is precisely what I said, Mr. Speaker.

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Elie Beauregard (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Is it the pleasure of the house to adopt the motion?

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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?

Some hon. Members:

Carried.

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Douglas Charles Abbott (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. Abbott:

We will wait while the pages pass around.

Morion agreed to and the house went into committee, Mr. Dion in the chair.

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Joseph-Alfred Dion (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The Chairman:

Shall the resolution carry?

Defence Appropriation Act

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

No.

Topic:   DEFENCE APPROPRIATION ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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September 5, 1950