June 13, 1950

LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

Well, that is about what it is. I have the figure here somewhere. My hon. friend probably wants the story more than just the figure. The figure is just about what I gave a moment ago.

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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PC

John Alpheus Charlton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Charlton:

I do not want a story. I want the number of pounds.

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

Last year the persons

handling honey came to us and suggested they had a surplus of 5 million pounds. I asked the house for a vote sufficient to purchase the 5 million pounds. When we started out to search for the 5 million pounds we managed to get approximately 3 million pounds. We have carried the 3 million pounds until quite recently. The honey people came back this year and asked for assistance again. When they came back I asked them whose honey the 3 million pounds was. Of course the fact is that there is one place you can sell honey at the present time, and that is in Canada. This year the production is low compared with last year. There was not any more honey in the country, so far as we could see, than had been sold before. I asked them whether they considered the 3 million pounds was government honey or whether they considered it was their honey. At first they took the position it was the government's honey. I said, "All right, we are going to sell it on this market." That changed the course of the discussion to a certain extent, and it was finally agreed that it was npt our honey, that all that had happened was that they had a surplus of honey and the government stepped in and said that they would take it off the market for the time being until it could be sold. They said it should come -back and be handled by the people who handle honey in Canada. As the result of the discussion we have made an agreement with them that they are going to sell the 3 million pounds, together with their own honey. So far as we know, the honey can be sold in Canada this year.

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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PC

John Alpheus Charlton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Charlton:

As I understand if, that is all first grade honey?

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

What we have is nearly all No. 1. One of the points involved in the discussion was that the honey they now have was not all as good quality. Some of it is what they call dark honey, and it is

Supply-Agriculture

difficult to sell in this country, but it is sold at a lower price elsewhere. We sell it in Israel, Belgium, Italy and other places.

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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PC

John Alpheus Charlton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Charlton:

Has the minister any idea what quantity of second grade or dark honey is in surplus supply?

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

I expected that more information was going to be asked for, and I have too much here. It is difficult to find the information, but it is here somewhere. I shall have to send out for the exact figures. As I recall it, the division has some 300,000 odd pounds of dark honey, but I have not the figures before me.

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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PC

George James Tustin

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Tustin:

I do not know whether the minister answered this question before, but is it the intention of the government to place a floor price under honey this year, and has the association requested this?

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

Up to the present it has not been considered wise to place a floor price under honey. We think there is a market in Canada for the honey that is available. On the basis of last year's sales there is a market for more honey than is available, with the exception of this dark honey, which is not salable in Canada.

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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PC

George James Tustin

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Tustin:

Has there been any request from the honey producers for a floor price?

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

No, there was no definite request. The discussion was along the lines I suggested a moment ago.

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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PC

James Arthur Ross

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Ross (Souris):

Would the minister let the item stand until we get that information?

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

There are many matters coming under this item in addition to honey.

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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LIB

John Mason James

Liberal

Mr. James:

Mr. Chairman, I cannot let this opportunity go by without having something to say about apples generally, and especially the apples grown in Ontario, with particular emphasis upon the excellent apples produced in Durham county; and I could include in that category Northumberland county as well. Had the supersalesmen from British Columbia not started peddling their wares and their grievances here last night I should have maintained my sphinx-like silence and allowed the business of the house to continue without interruption. As it is I must leap to the defence of the Ontario apple growers, whose produce throughout the years has been proven to be the finest in Canada.

For a few moments I would like to deal with the importance of the apple in the development of our world. Even in the beginning there were apples, and poor Eve fell victim to their irresistible charm. She knew that the McIntosh red upon which she gazed would have a flavour incomparable

among all the fruits of the earth. She knew that one bite from the apple would make her healthy and wise. Could the devil have tempted her with a sheaf of western wheat, a bunch of grapes, a gold nugget, or a B.C. fir? No; it had to be that most attractive of all things, the apple.

The great law of gravitation was also discovered because of the apple; for when Newton sat under the trees in his orchard and saw one of those apples fall he began to wonder why the apple did not fall upward. Could he have discovered the law of gravitation by looking at a Prince Edward Island potato or the iron ore of Labrador? No; you and I must admit that the apple falling on Newton's head was of great importance in the progress of our world.

In national affairs the apple plays a great part. If you visit a certain town in Italy you will find a most delightful little chapel erected in honour of William Tell, who won his greatest fame because he shot an apple from his son's head. He never could have shot a grape, or a Winnipeg goldeye; therefore the apple all the way round, religion, science, sport and in every other particular, is the greatest of all the fruits, and we owe it an immense debt of gratitude.

Even in our bodies we have the Adam's apple, and -when we talk of a thing of beauty we say "She is the apple of my eye." Why was it the apple was chosen to set forth those delightful, those entrancing, those incomparable qualities and virtues? Because it has within itself the very essence of value.

But I will give you the best proof of all that the apple plays a part in life when everything else fails. You remember King Solomon. He wrote a love poem at one time; and he had a good deal of experience in love. If ever there was a man qualified to write about love it must be King Solomon. You will find at one time that he got very sick of love, and when he desired something that would be a very excellent substitute he wrote this line in his poem: "Stay me with flagons, comfort me with apple, for I am sick of love." You can picture King Solomon with a jug of cider and a plate of apples, and he found that more consolation than all his wives.

I could go on giving example after example of the importance of the apple in our economy and in the health of our nation. Let us never forget the adage that an apple a day keeps the doctor away. I could tell of the versatility of this fruit. You can bake it, boil it, roast it or fry it; serve it with meats, or preserve it, or jam it, or pickle it. You can drink it; you can eat it. It has many

forms and many uses; that is what makes it so wonderful that no other fruit can be compared to it.

For the benefit of those who have listened so patiently, let me bring you up to date on the apple industry in Canada. For the past several years the industry has been flourishing and happy. The growers in Ontario and Quebec have watched the federal government extend financial and marketing assistance to the growers in British Columbia and Nova Scotia, a situation which was satisfactory to the Ontario people because it kept the British Columbia and Nova Scotia apples away from the Ontario market, giving the local producers a good domestic market which in most cases took care of the Ontario crop. To appreciate the picture fairly well it must be explained that in Nova Scotia and British Columbia the growers are confined to small areas compared with Ontario, so it was a comparatively easy matter to have the western and eastern apples packed and shipped or processed through a central agency. Such central agencies made it comparatively simple to distribute subsidies. In Ontario the growers are spread across the province, and it has been very difficult to set up any centralized control and sales organization.

This year an unfortunate event occurred which has left a sour taste in the mouths of the Ontario growers. Production of apples was high and markets were not too plentiful. Many orchardists in Ontario lost a considerable amount of money. One large grower has told me that he lost $40,000 and that a friend of his lost over $20,000. Others just broke even, and a few made costs but not much more. Early in the spring an announcement was made in this house to the effect that $2 million would be given to the British Columbia growers and $500,000 to the growers of Nova Scotia. There was no complaint from the Ontario people, who in many cases had also taken a financial beating. To make matters worse, a few weeks after that announcement, just when Ontario growers normally market their Northern Spies, it was found that British Columbia had been able to sell the large Ontario and Quebec chain stores on a proposal to give exclusive rights to British Columbia apples for a period of several weeks, during which an intensive advertising campaign was conducted in the press, paid for, as I understand it, half by the British Columbia growers and half by the chain stores involved. Needless to say this program literally wiped out the market for Ontario Northern Spies, which had to be held over and sold later or disposed of in other ways. Now we hear the hon. member

S upp ly-A griculture

for Kootenay West bragging how many apples they sold in Ontario and will sell in the future, to which I reply that had the Ontario growers received a $2 million subsidy, they might have been able to sell apples in British Columbia. But Ontario growers have received no subsidy, and find themselves in a grim position at the moment. Even though the subsidies, we are told, definitely will not extend to cover this year's crop of apples, both British Columbia and Nova Scotia have their marketing and packing organizations well established, due in the main to the assistance provided from federal funds. Certainly had it not been for that assistance they would not have been financially able to build up and maintain such organizations. It should also be pointed out that despite this yearly support from federal funds both British Columbia and Nova Scotia have continued planting young trees so that their production is now greater than it was ten years ago. In fact, as I understand it, the entire apple industry in Canada, is now producing about forty per cent more apples than can be consumed under present conditions in Canada.

The future of the industry appears to be precarious. Ontario growers have recommended that the federal government undertake a program of tree removal, in co-operation with the provincial authorities, to decrease the production of apples, but the minister has stated that any such program must be initiated by the province, which would appear to be the logical place for such a project to start. However, I do hope that the minister will continue to give serious consideration to evolving, in co-operation with the growers and the provinces in all of Canada, some method either of stemming production of apples or of increasing the demand for apples through advertising and other means, so that this industry, which is most important to the economy of our country, will again be able to carry on in a selfsustaining manner without the need for annual hand-outs.

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

Mr. Chairman, in answer to the question about honey, I have finally obtained the record, and as usual the record which I had in my mind was approximately correct. The amount of honey which we had on June 1, 1949, was 9,897,408 pounds. The amount which we had in stock on June 1, 1950, was, with the government, 2,949,000 pounds; as of June 10, which is the latest figure available, 2,896,000 pounds. The round figure which I gave to the house was 2,800,000 pounds. The amount which others have, as of June 1, 1950, is 6,502,000 pounds. That makes the total stocks 9,451,000 pounds, or

Supply-Agriculture .

428,000 pounds less than we had at the same time last year. The amount of dark honey is close to the figure I gave. It is 336,000 pounds, and I believe the round figure I gave was 300,000 pounds.

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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PC

Harry Oliver White

Progressive Conservative

Mr. White (Middlesex East):

Is it the

intention of the government to use the prices support act in dealing with other farm products? Is the pattern to be the same as that used in marketing the honey?

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

No; we have not any particular pattern that applies to everything. It is impossible to find a pattern that applies to everything. We consider each product on its merit, and deal with it on its merit. When the honey people came to see us, they did not ask us to apply the plan to this honey-

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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PC

Harry Oliver White

Progressive Conservative

Mr. White (Middlesex East):

In 1950.

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

-in 1950. They asked us to take all of the dark honey. During the discussion I brought up the question of who owned this other honey, the good honey, and who was going to sell it. When they suggested they were going to sell their own and ours was to remain, I suggested that we would sell ours in competition with theirs. It would have to go on the same market. There was sufficient market for all of it. We were quite prepared to have them market it, but if they were not prepared to market it, then we would market our own. They agreed to market all the honey. We did, however, assist in an advertising campaign for which we are paying $12,000.

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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PC

Lewis Elston Cardiff

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Cardiff:

Is the government carrying any maple products?

Topic:   METEOROLOGY
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF CONVENTION OF WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION SIGNED AT WASHINGTON OCTOBER 11, 1947
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June 13, 1950