May 31, 1950

LIB

Milton Fowler Gregg (Minister of Veterans Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. Gregg:

No, they will be paid from the district office. .

Topic:   WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCE ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR BENEFITS FOR CERTAIN FORMER MEMBERS OF FORCES OTHER THAN CANADIANS
Permalink
PC

Edmund Davie Fulton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

There is authority now in the district office to issue cheques?

Topic:   WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCE ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR BENEFITS FOR CERTAIN FORMER MEMBERS OF FORCES OTHER THAN CANADIANS
Permalink
LIB

Milton Fowler Gregg (Minister of Veterans Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. Gregg:

Yes.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCE ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR BENEFITS FOR CERTAIN FORMER MEMBERS OF FORCES OTHER THAN CANADIANS
Permalink
CCF

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Herridge:

Before the section carries I should like to express my approval of it. I think it is an excellent section. I think when it is put into effect we in the province of British Columbia will benefit from it because there has been a certain loss of time owing to the present centralization. That is not the fault of the board. With other members of the house I want to commend the work the board has done. I think the procedure of a travelling board will result in much more benefit to those seeking war veterans allowance. In that way the board will obtain knowledge of the situation across the country and get closer to the veteran and the local situation. It will also standardize procedure, and I can see the advantage of that. I suggest that we would be well advised to watch the

administration of this section for a year and see how it functions. Personally I think it will be of great benefit to veterans in every section of Canada.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCE ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR BENEFITS FOR CERTAIN FORMER MEMBERS OF FORCES OTHER THAN CANADIANS
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PC

Alfred Johnson Brooks

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Brooks:

I do not think the minister answered my question. I asked how many districts have asked for this change. Frankly I do not think there has been a general request across Canada. I understand it has been mostly from the province of British Columbia.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCE ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR BENEFITS FOR CERTAIN FORMER MEMBERS OF FORCES OTHER THAN CANADIANS
Permalink
LIB

Milton Fowler Gregg (Minister of Veterans Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. Gregg:

There has been no formal request for it from the districts. As in a number of other cases in our legislation, it has been the result of our own departmental experience and the feeling that this would improve the situation. There has been no formal request.

Topic:   WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCE ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR BENEFITS FOR CERTAIN FORMER MEMBERS OF FORCES OTHER THAN CANADIANS
Permalink

Section agreed to. Sections 7 and 8 agreed to. Title agreed to. Bill reported, read the third time and passed.


THE REGULATIONS ACT

PROVISION FOR UNIFORM SYSTEM OF PUBLISHING REGULATIONS AND LAYING THEM BEFORE PARLIAMENT

LIB

Louis Stephen St-Laurent (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Right Hon. L. S. St. Laurent (Prime Minister) moved

the second reading of Bill No. 89, to provide for the publication of statutory regulations.

Topic:   THE REGULATIONS ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR UNIFORM SYSTEM OF PUBLISHING REGULATIONS AND LAYING THEM BEFORE PARLIAMENT
Permalink
PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

Will the Prime Minister explain the bill?

Topic:   THE REGULATIONS ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR UNIFORM SYSTEM OF PUBLISHING REGULATIONS AND LAYING THEM BEFORE PARLIAMENT
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LIB

Louis Stephen St-Laurent (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. St. Laurent:

I have a statement to make which I can make now or in committee stage if it is more convenient. If any hon. member prefers that it be made now I am quite prepared to do so.

Topic:   THE REGULATIONS ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR UNIFORM SYSTEM OF PUBLISHING REGULATIONS AND LAYING THEM BEFORE PARLIAMENT
Permalink
PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

We would like to have it now.

Topic:   THE REGULATIONS ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR UNIFORM SYSTEM OF PUBLISHING REGULATIONS AND LAYING THEM BEFORE PARLIAMENT
Permalink
LIB

Louis Stephen St-Laurent (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. St. Laurent:

The main purpose of the bill is to ensure that all orders, regulations and proclamations, made or issued in the exercise of legislative powers delegated by parliament, are published and tabled in a systematic and uniform manner. There is no provision here for enlarging the powers to make orders or regulations. It is merely to deal with the exercise of powers already existing under prior legislation. It is to provide that there be one uniform system of tabling and publishing these orders. Such publication and tabling is to be compulsory. The provisions embodied in this measure are the result of comparative studies of procedures followed in other countries, notably in the United Kingdom, and of experience gained in the application of the provisions of the statutory orders and regulations order made during the war.

Regulations Act

Perhaps it might be useful to review briefly the practice presently followed in the publication of statutory orders and regulations. As hon. members know, since the first of January, 1947, all proclamations, orders, rules and regulations of a legislative character or of an administrative character having general effect or imposing a penalty, whether these instruments are made by the governor in council, a minister, a board or other agent empowered by act of parliament, are published fortnightly in part II of the Canada Gazette, known as "statutory orders and regulations". This procedure was established by order in council P.C. 4876 on the 26th of November, 1946, under authority conferred by section 30 of the Public Printing and Stationery Act. This order in council also authorized the compilation and publication of a consolidation of all orders, rules, regulations and proclamations of a legislative character which were in effect on a given date.

A consolidation of such statutory orders and regulations in effect on December 31, 1949, has been prepared and is in the hands of the king's printer. I had hoped it would be available for distribution even before we reached this bill. I believe that early next week we shall have one or two volumes of the compilation. We wanted to get together, in convenient form, so that people could have ready access to them, everything that is now in force. Then we would have a systematized regular form for publishing anything new, so that it would be easier for all those who ought to be informed to know that, if it is not in such and such a place, it does not exist, and there is no need for taking into account anything that is not in this consolidation or that has not been published in the form called for by this bill.

The order in council to which I have just referred is known as "The statutory orders and regulations order, 1947". It was an attempt to find a practical and workable solution to the increasingly difficult problem of delegated legislation. This problem is not by any means restricted to Canada. The same difficulties have had to be met in all democratic countries. Particularly in the years during and since the war, the ramifications of public business have multiplied to such an extent that the representatives of the people have found it a practical necessity to delegate an increasing amount of subsidiary powers to the executive, or to boards or other agencies. Canada is no exception, and our parliament has delegated more and more regulatory powers to the governor in council, ministers, boards and other crown agencies.

For many years now, the government has been concerned with the problem of keeping parliament, and the public, fully informed

Regulations Act

with respect to this increasing volume of so-called delegated legislation. It is for this reason that during the war orders in council were passed directing that all orders, regulations, and proclamations of a legislative character, or even of an administrative character that provided for penalties, should be published. It was also for this reason that the statutory orders and regulations order, 1947, was passed. This procedure was adopted because we thought we would take some time to find out, by practical experience, how it worked before we brought something to parliament in the form of a statute. Three years have now elapsed since the passing of that order. Considerable experience has been gained during that time, and has resulted in amendments that, from time to time, have been made to the original 1947 order. We feel that the time has now come when we can bring to parliament something that should be practical and workable, and which may not have to be varied too frequently or too soon. This does provide unequivocally for the compulsory publication and tabling of all instruments made under the delegated legislative powers; that is the sole purpose of this measure. Although largely based on the statutory orders and regulations order, 1947, this bill will further clarify and extend the procedure, in order to ensure that it covers the whole field of delegated legislation.

The statutory orders and regulations order was passed only after a comparative study had been made of the procedure followed in other countries, notably in the United Kingdom. At that time, careful consideration was also given to the United Kingdom parliamentary committee on delegated legislation. Following a suggestion made in this house on September 22, 1949, by the hon. member for Lake Centre (Mr. Diefenbaker), I undertook to give renewed consideration to the operation of the United Kingdom committee and, in the light of its operation and of such other considerations as might seem relevant, to indicate at an early stage in this session whether we would be prepared to support the establishment of a similar committee. We do not believe we should recommend at this time that sort of committee because most of the statutory regulations have to be made by the governor in council, and that gives considerable time for checking, whilst in the United Kingdom most of these things are done by boards or other agencies of the crown. No one who is responsible to parliament or to the public hears of these regulations until they have become law. This United Kingdom committee has strictly limited terms of reference that probably would not fit our situation. They have to

report on whether or not the order infringes seven stated principles. If it does not, the committee has nothing to do with it. If it does, they call attention to that fact. We do not believe that would be a remedy that would fit our situation.

It was not possible to make a definition of regulations that would exclude the sort of thing one does not want to have in this. For instance, it might be that an order given to an aeroplane from a control tower would be a regulation. That would be one thing for one occasion. This bill provides that the general rule will be that everything has to be published, but that the governor in council may except certain classes. In order to do so, however, that class or those classes would have to be published and tabled, so that members of parliament will see what is to be excepted. Then they can make such comment as they think justified upon the exception that will be made.

We think that we have here made a serious attempt to be as helpful as possible. All those who want to know their way about in this quite large number of things that operate by virtue of acts of parliament, having that consolidation-I think there will be four or five volumes of it-will find we are trying to have a proper table made, because it will be just as convenient to us as it will be to other members of parliament. After that, we shall have this compulsory practice of having to table and publish in a systematized way, and register in the privy council office, the things that are in force. By consulting that register, even the things that will have ceased to be in force will be found, including the date when they came into force and when they ceased to be in force. The register will be easily accessible, so that all those concerned will be able to get, as expeditiously as possible, the information they require to govern their own conduct or, with respect to lawyers, to advise their clients.

Topic:   THE REGULATIONS ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR UNIFORM SYSTEM OF PUBLISHING REGULATIONS AND LAYING THEM BEFORE PARLIAMENT
Permalink
PC

Edmund Davie Fulton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

It being six o'clock, I move the adjournment of the debate.

Topic:   THE REGULATIONS ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR UNIFORM SYSTEM OF PUBLISHING REGULATIONS AND LAYING THEM BEFORE PARLIAMENT
Permalink

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

LIB

Alphonse Fournier (Minister of Public Works; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Fournier (Hull):

Tomorrow we shall go into supply and take up the estimates of the following departments: National Resources

and Development, Veterans Affairs, Citizenship and Immigration.

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Permalink
PC
LIB

Alphonse Fournier (Minister of Public Works; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Fournier (Hull):

In that order.

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Permalink

At six o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.


May 31, 1950