May 9, 1950

PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

What I object to is that, having secured the removal of section 98, as Mr. Meighen said, by promises; having secured votes and then removed section 98, you created another section-and I am accepting the minister's argument-under which there is a presumption of guilt when any person or organization advocates, either in writing-

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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LIB

Stuart Sinclair Garson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Garson:

Are you against that?

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

Wait a minute-either by word or in writing advocates a change of government by force. Now, what about the discharge by the minister of his responsibility? I am accepting his argument that the law is sufficient today. Why should seven foreign language newspapers in Canada, which go beyond the realm of freedom of speech, some of them advocating openly a change of government by force, be allowed to exist within this land with complete impunity so far as the government is concerned? Why is it that when communists travel the length and breadth of Canada and preach the doctrine of force, the section is not used? Why does it remain in mothballs? If it were used, many of those who with impunity are advocating a change in the constitution and the government of the country by force would be subject to prosecution and conviction. Section 133 as amended places the onus of

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Communist Activities in Canada responsibility on the accused. Is it used? In fifteen years it has been used twice. In fifteen years there have been only two prosecutions, while communism continues its work.

Even the Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. Pearson) over a year ago said that some change was needed in the criminal law. I am not going to advocate a change in the law.

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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LIB

Stuart Sinclair Garson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Garson:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

I am going to ask the

government and the Minister of Justice to take the law and use it in Canada in order to meet wrongdoing and to see to it that wrongdoers shall not attempt to undermine the government of the country by advocating force.

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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LIB

Stuart Sinclair Garson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Garson:

I want to make sure I understand my hon. friend's argument.

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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PC
LIB

Stuart Sinclair Garson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Garson:

Is it his argument that under the subsection to which he has been referring it is now possible to prosecute and convict these newspapers without passing the resolution moved by his leader? Is that his argument?

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

My hon. friend is exactly in that position. That was his defence. We do not need amendment of the law and I am taking his argument.

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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LIB

Stuart Sinclair Garson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Garson:

Is it your argument?

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

I am not enforcing the law. I want to tell you if there was a minister of justice over there who was not exhibiting as to this matter some of the attitudes the minister assumed in connection with the millers, we would not have the communism and communist activities that we have in various parts of this country. I am taking his argument and using it to show that under section 133 prosecution is possible and conviction is possible, for under that section the accused lost the right to defend except by going on the witness stand and himself answering the presumption that was raised against him.

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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LIB

Stuart Sinclair Garson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Garson:

If my hon. friend will permit me, I am having a great deal of difficulty getting answers. Does my hon. friend agree with that argument?

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

I am agreeing with my hon. friend; I am using his argument.

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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LIB

Stuart Sinclair Garson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Garson:

Then if my hon. friend agrees with that argument will he say how many times prosecutions were initiated under section 98 while Mr. Bennett's government was in power? If he does not know I will tell him.

Communist Activities in Canada

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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

There were prosecutions under section 98 during Mr. Bennett's administration; Buck, and those associated with him.

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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LIB

Stuart Sinclair Garson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Garson:

One.

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

And the Evans case in British Columbia.

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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LIB

Humphrey Mitchell (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. Mitchell:

Perhaps my hon. friend will let me ask a question. He puts me in mind of looking for a black cat in the dark without a candle. This question of Mr. Bennett and the prosecutions under section 98 has been raised. If my hon. friend will read the record I think he will find that those prosecutions were carried on by Mr. W. H. Price, then attorney igeneral of Ontario, who was responsible for the enforcement of law and order in this province at that time.

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

Well, Mr. Speaker, you know if you throw a stone into a group of livestock, the one that yells is the one you have hit. I am not going to be deflected from this point, because I have something more to say. To the government of this country I say you have not used your powers; you have played with this problem under the law. The Minister of Labour (Mr. Mitchell) asks about the prosecutions in 1932 or 1933.

Topic:   COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CANADA
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LIB

May 9, 1950