May 9, 1950

PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

No; use the right words. "Sold"

was the word.

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
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LIB

George James McIlraith (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Mcllrailh:

You didn't say "sold".

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
LIB

Robert Henry Winters (Minister of Resources and Development)

Liberal

Mr. Winters:

My memory is as good as the hon. member's.

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
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LIB

Louis-René Beaudoin (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

I should like to have an exact interpretation of the words used. One says the word was "given" and the other says "sold". In any event, whether it was "given" or "sold" it implies a certain favouritism of which, of course, the leader of the opposition would not want to accuse the Minister of Resources and Development. I am sure if there is any offensive expression or word which in the opinion of the Minister of Resources and Development should be withdrawn, the leader of the opposition would want to modify it.

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

Mr. Chairman, the time has come to end any pretence that there is discussion here of affairs in this house. I made the proposal to the minister that there should be included in this act an amendment which would carry out the very words he used in regard to certain of these properties, but not all of them. The suggestion was that there be an amendment to this act which would provide that all public properties of this kind will be sold only where the sale is advertised and where there is an opportunity for public bidding. If the minister accepts that, then he disposes of any question in regard to this.

I pointed out before, and I repeat, that public lands have been sold without such public bidding. I am suggesting this, and I do commend to the minister the consideration of such an amendment which would prevent the possibility of anything of that kind happening.

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
LIB

George James McIlraith (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Mcllrailh:

What about the remark

about friends-giving to friends?

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
LIB

Louis-René Beaudoin (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

Do I take it that the explanation given by the leader of the opposition corrects whatever expression was used before?

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
LIB

George James McIlraith (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Mcllrailh:

It does not come near it.

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
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?

Donald MacInnis

Mr. Maclnnis:

On the point of order raised by the Minister of Resources and Development, unless the statement made by the leader of the opposition was made directly to and reflected upon the minister, I do not think there is any violation of the rules of the house. As I heard it, the expression was "sold to their friends", not "to his friends". That would mean friends of the government.

Public Lands Grants Act While the government may not like it, I think it is neither here nor there. Whether the statement was justified or not is another question; but I do not think it is in violation of the rules of the house when in debate.

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
LIB

Louis-René Beaudoin (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

In all these cases I always try to secure agreement between the parties concerned. I have not made any ruling yet, because I did not hear the remark myself. I should imagine however that explanations have been given on both sides, and I thank the hon. member for Vancouver East for his kind remarks and his co-operation. I think we might proceed with debate. Shall the amendment carry?

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
CCF

Robert Ross (Roy) Knight

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knight:

The minister bridled a bit at the remark of the leader of the opposition- and I do not blame him, because I have no doubt that the minister is quite innocent of any malpractice. But from the point of view of taking any holier-than-thou attitude, I would remind him that the reason for my question has to do with timber on these public lands and as to whether public lands can, under any circumstances, be defined as national parks. Because I should like to remind the minister that many years ago there were certain timber leases granted, as the Minister of Justice well knows, in connection with a national park in the province of Manitoba. I understand that that lease is still in operation. When I inquired about it some years ago we were told by the government that it would go on as long as there was a stick on the place fit to cut. The result was that the company to whom it was leased have got the timber and the people of Canada got the stumps.

I hope that situation has ironed itself out. I hope the timber has now been all cut, and I hope the government is not going into any reforestation scheme to sell timber on that particular land for the purpose of the company. Perhaps the minister, if it comes under his department, could give us a word about that. My fear was that there might be a repetition of that sort of thing.

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
LIB

Robert Henry Winters (Minister of Resources and Development)

Liberal

Mr. Winters:

Would the hon. member say where and when the lease to which he refers was granted?

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
CCF

Robert Ross (Roy) Knight

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knight:

I have not the particulars here; but my former colleague, the then member for Dauphin, Mr. Zaplitny, brought it out on various occasions in the house. It is on record in Hansard.

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
LIB

Robert Henry Winters (Minister of Resources and Development)

Liberal

Mr. Winters:

It must have been before 1930, because there are at the present time no timber limits in the park to which he refers.

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Coldwell:

The point is that while the lease was granted some years ago, it seems to have been a lease almost in perpetuity. I think that was the discussion. There seemed to be no way of ending it. This company possessed the lease which was granted some years ago-perhaps prior to 1930. It seemed to have the right, and there was no way of ending it. But surely there must be a way of ending it. I see the hon. member for Dauphin is in his seat; perhaps he could throw some light on the matter.

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
LIB

William John Ward

Liberal

Mr. Ward:

Mr. Chairman, I do know something about the timber land that was discussed in the house some few years ago. If the former member for Dauphin had wished, he could have obtained the facts.

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Coldwell:

He did; and they were not denied in the house.

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
LIB

William John Ward

Liberal

Mr. Ward:

Well, if they were not denied, then someone did not know the facts.

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Coldwell:

The facts were given on the floor of the house, by the government.

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink
LIB

William John Ward

Liberal

Mr. Ward:

The facts are-

Topic:   PUBLIC LANDS GRANTS ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS WITH RESPECT TO CONVEYANCE, LEASES, DEFENCE LANDS, ETC.
Permalink

May 9, 1950