Mr. Mcllrailh:

What page is that?

Mr. Green:

That is at the end of the report of the national research council for 1948-49. Therefore it would appear that there must

Research Council Act

be somebody at the moment who, while he may not be called vice-president, scientific, is doing the work.

Mr. Mcllrailh:

I am afraid it is not just as simple as that. I am not aware of there being anyone occupying that position.

Mr. Graydon:

Has somebody got the name with somebody else doing the work?

Mr. Mcllrailh:

I do not think so. I do not know what the explanation of that statement is but certainly there is no one occupying the position now. As to the matter of the definition of inventions, I think that is something that can better be dealt with when we see the actual section of the bill when it is before the committee. The new definition is quite wide and retains the breadth of the present one. As a matter of fact it extends the present definition.

Mr. Green:

What about crown companies?

Mr. Mcllrailh:

There is just one crown company, and that is the corporation dealing with crown patents.

Mr. Green:

There is only one crown

company?

Mr. Mcllrailh:

Yes, the one dealing with crown patents.

Mr. Graydon:

Mr. Chairman, this gives me an opportunity to discuss another matter which I think is germane to the subject under discussion. I am sorry to have to do so in the absence of the Secretary of State. I raised the question during the last session and I do so again on this resolution because I fancy that if a change is to be made it should be incorporated in legislation such as we have envisaged here. I do not know for how many years members of the house have had continually to raise the question of the chaotic conditions of the patent office of Canada. I suggested at one stage that perhaps the government should consider carefully whether or not they should take the patent office and put in under the Department of Trade and Commerce.

I am not an expert on patent affairs, and there are not many in this house who are. I am looking at one member over there who perhaps has more experience than a good many. I know that he, along with many other patent attorneys with whom I have talked from time to time, cannot possibly be satisfied with the conditions existing at the present time in the patent office. I have been amazed that no concrete action seems to have been taken to bring the patent office abreast of modern conditions so far as business is concerned. In these days patents are a most important cog in our general industrial

Research Council Act

machine. If our patent office is seriously behind in its work, then of course it retards the progress of business and industry.

It has been stated from time to time in and out of the house that the patent office today, while perhaps improved in its operations over what it was during the war, still has not reached the point where it really is able to serve the industrial and business public of Canada and the general public as well, because they are all affected, in the way that I think a governmental institution should. In saying that I am not casting any reflection upon a single person connected with the patent office. My feeling is that right through the whole patent office there is a feeling of despair and discouragement because of the mountain of work that lies ahead of them which they can only chip off day by day. People may say the same situation has existed in the United Kingdom and the United States. I am not able to give the committee a very clear picture with respect to the United Kingdom patent office, but I am told that the patent office in the United States has been greatly improved as the result of a drive by the government of that country to clean up the backlog of work. I think this resolution should give this committee an opportunity to discuss the whole question of patents in this country.

The Deputy Chairman:

I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member, but I think we should be clear on this point so that we may know in further discussions, either on this resolution or on the bill that will follow it, whether or not it is in order to discuss the patent office and any other reforms that might be thought desirable in the Patent Act. As I see it, the resolution precedes a measure to amend the Research Council Act. In the latter part, where it mentions bringing the act into conformity with the Patent Act, it seems to me that act is being mentioned only by way of explanation

and incidentally, while this resolution may provide a good opportunity for one who desires to discuss the Patent Act, I do not think it would be in order to do so. That is my view, as I am able to analyse the resolution, and I should like that point clarified now.

Mr. Graydon:

With great deference, Mr. Chairman, I differ with your ruling. I had a great deal more to say about the patent office, because I thought this a good opportunity to bring the matter before the Prime Minister and the parliamentary assistant. I do suggest that they seriously consider my suggestion and make a drive, as has been done in other countries, to clean up the patent situation.

Mr. Fraser:

Would the parliamentary

assistant tell us what will be the salary of the additional vice-president.

Mr. Mcllraiih:

I am afraid I cannot give that information at the moment.

Mr. Fraser:

Why cannot the parliamentary assistant give the information?

Mr. Mcllraiih:

I don't know it. However, I shall be glad to get the information for the hon. member.

Mr. Fraser:

We will have the information?

Mr. Mcllraiih:

I can give it tomorrow on the orders of the day.

Mr. Richard (Ottawa East):

I would have been glad of the opportunity to say something about the Patent Act, Mr. Chairman, but since that was ruled out of order as soon as the hon. member for Peel completed what he had to say, I will wait until the estimates are before us. In partial explanation, however, I may remind the hon. member that the patent office has been an orphan for many years. First it was under agriculture, then it was under trade and commerce, and now it is under the Secretary of State, and perhaps that explains why it is a little abandoned. But there has been progress.

Now I want to ask the parliamentary assistant whether he has a definition of "invention" under the Patent Act. That would perhaps clarify the point raised by the hon. member for Vancouver-Quadra. I think the important part of the definition is the fact that it includes composition in matter, to cover chemistry and allied sciences.

Resolution reported, read the second time and concurred in.

Mr. Fournier, Hull (for Mr. Howe) thereupon moved for leave to introduce Bill No. 179, to amend the Research Council Act.

Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.