March 6, 1950

?

An hon. Member:

What about your $25 a month?

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SC

Hilliard Harris William Beyerstein

Social Credit

Mr. Beyerslein:

There are a number of indications, however, that within the next five or ten years Alberta's oil income may approach $60 million a year which would be enough, if the government chose, to administer the affairs of the province without levying one cent of taxation. We could carry on from current revenue, and yet the Liberals say that we should borrow money in amounts as large as $100 million so that we could pay more interest to the financial institutions.

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PC

Arthur Leroy Smith

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Smith (Calgary West):

Don't give up the liquor. We get $11 million from that.

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SC

Hilliard Harris William Beyerstein

Social Credit

Mr. Beyerslein:

That is right. This year, without borrowing money, the Alberta government has under way a public works program which will give us approximately $20 million worth of roads, and that is all on a pay-as-you-go basis. In addition to that, they are preparing to build a $1,500,000 300-bed sanatorium in Edmonton. Another new tuberculosis hospital is being built at the provincial mental institution at Oliver. A new occupational therapy building costing $75,000 is being constructed at the mental hospital at Ponoka. More than $1 million, part of it a loan, goes to the university of Alberta building program for a $706,000 library and a students' union. The government itself is building an eight-storey administration building in Edmonton and has also earmarked $250,000 for construction of a provincial laboratory building. New highways, bridges, irrigation projects and $1,205,610 for the conservation of the eastern Rocky mountain forests make up most of the balance of the $75 million budget for this year. So the government of Alberta is doing very nicely without borrowing any such staggering amount as $100 million.

In closing I suggest to the ministers that when they come to Alberta they should guard their statements. I am reminded of a couple of chaps who were having a cup of coffee the

The Address-Mr. Catherwood morning after the minister made that statement in Alberta. After reading the statement one said to the other, "You don't have to be crazy to understand those fellows, but it certainly would help a lot."

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PC

A. Earl Catherwood

Progressive Conservative

Mr. A. Earl Catherwood (Haldimand):

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity of taking part in the debate on the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I know it is customary to congratulate the mover and seconder on the part they took in this debate, and I personally want to compliment them on the grand job they did and the realistic approach that was made in view of the very difficult throne speech they had to work on.

I believe, as the hon. member for Kinders-ley (Mr. Larson) stated, that the economy of our nation is more affected by the economic position of our farmers than by that of any other Class of people. I also wish to state that we have to think of this country as a unified nation. I was very sorry to hear the hon. member for St. John's East (Mr. Higgins) make the statement this afternoon that the government have been dealing with the new province of Newfoundland in such a manner. I am sure we all hope that matters will be remedied very shortly, because I know we do not want to lose the hon. member for St. John's East. This is a unified nation, and we have to think of every province as a part of our great country. We in central and eastern Canada must think of the west and the problems they have to face. They also must recognize our problems. So I think we in parliament have a real responsibility at this time, in what might be called the atomic age, to view these problems and deal with them as best we may.

One of the advantages of this debate is that it gives hon. members an opportunity tc branch out and discuss matters they feel to be of paramount importance to Canada. I regret very much that this parliament did not see fit to adopt the motion that was moved by the hon. member for Lake Centre for the calling of a conference of commonwealth nations. I feel that we should take advantage of every opportunity that presents itself to increase trade, either as between the commonwealth countries or world trade itself; so I am sorry our suggestion in that regard was turned down by the government.

I should like to mention another phase of this matter of world trade, which has been mentioned also by the hon. member for Peace River (Mr. Low) and others of our Social Credit friends, as well as by the hon. member for Selkirk (Mr. Bryce) this afternoon. That is the suggestion that we should set up an organization under the food and

The Address-Mr. Catherwood agricultural organization of the United Nations. Canada needs an outside market for only a small portion of her farm products; but the small surplus that does exist can cause depressed prices in this great industry. So I believe that with the combined efforts of the agricultural leaders of the nations participating in the FAO it should be possible to reach an agreement which would make this plan acceptable. I feel sure it could be made workable; I believe it is sensible and sound; and through the medium of this world food organization I am confident that we could at least find a partial solution to these great problems of world trade confronting us at the present time. We must find some means of overcoming the difficulties now faced by nations trading in currencies other than our own; and I suggest there is a great opportunity for this government to show leadership in this connection.

I had hoped that on his return from the conference held at Washington last October and November, which we all so greatly hoped would be successful, the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardner) would have made a statement to this house outlining the reasons for failure to arrive at the principles advocated there. Regardless of why no headway was made, I am firmly convinced that until such time as this international commodity clearing house is set up there can be no immediate possibility of a solution to a problem that is of such grave concern to all. Canada possesses an immense wealth of natural resources, but at the same time she is extremely vulnerable as far as abnormal trade conditions are concerned. I would urge the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Howe) and the Minister of Agriculture to give the necessary leadership, so that from the ashes of that Washington conference there may arise a new and stronger organization that will perhaps establish a new world order as far as trading conditions are concerned.

We in Canada and the United States were greatly disturbed at the announcement by a high official of the United States department of agriculture that some 50 million pounds of potatoes were to be destroyed. This is contrary to all accepted laws of civilized countries. Why is it that such measures should be necessary on the part of such enlightened and intelligent people as we in Canada and the United States claim to be? Everyone knows that while we have a surplus of food in Canada and the United States the undeniable fact remains that millions of people, particularly in the Asiatic countries, are pitifully crying for a crust of bread. I attended a theatre here in Ottawa a few weeks ago and saw a news reel which depicted conditions in those Asiatic countries. They were

almost impossible to believe. There we saw pictured undernourished and starving children. We also saw the parents of those children subsisting on a bowl of soup and a few spoonfuls of rice per day. It almost made one want to shout from the housetops and ask why conditions like these must prevail.

These remarks may not be closely associated with the business of this parliament, Mr. Speaker, but I do feel that unless we take some responsibility for the alleviation of such conditions where they exist throughout the world the implications may be more far-reaching and disastrous than we can imagine; for I believe there is no more fertile ground for communistic propaganda than in the hearts and minds of hungry people. While the Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. Pearson) does not agree with many of the suggestions we make from this side of the house, I believe he will agree when I say that one of the main reasons for this communistic infiltration which is making such tremendous headway in China and Asia generally, as well as in Europe, is the lack of food and consequent undernourishment of these peoples.

It is very heartening to us in this house to see that at least the government have recognized the problem of unemployment, to the extent of introducing the measure to amend the Unemployment Insurance Act, which was put through the house last week. That was not a solution to the problem, however. I attended church service here in Ottawa just a week ago, and during his sermon Reverend Mr. Finlay mentioned this proposed legislation. He said, and I quite agree, that this legislation is not the solution to our unemployment problems, that what the people need is an opportunity to earn their daily bread. That is very true. As with all of us, a workingman likes to feel that he can go out and do a day's work and accomplish something, so that he can make a contribution to society and earn his daily bread.

At the time that legislation was being discussed in this House of Commons some splendid suggestions were offered to the Acting Minister of Labour (Mr. Martin) which I hope will be taken into consideration when the act is revised. I feel sure that the Acting Minister of Labour will implement all these suggestions made from this side of the house, because there were some good ones. I hope he includes all of them in the act.

I should like to make a brief reference to one item that was mentioned by the hon. member for Lake Centre (Mr. Diefenbaker); I refer to those people who are ill, are unable to collect unemployment insurance, and who in many cases have been indisposed for

months. They cannot collect compensation. I hope that the minister, with his humanitarian instincts, will implement in the act that suggestion as well.

Speaking about humanitarian efforts, may I say that I have often thought that there should be some solution to the problem of our people who are stricken with arthritis or poliomyelitis and are crippled from various diseases and have no way of getting an income except through relief which they may receive from the various municipalities. I hope that some provision for them will be included by the Minister of National Health and Welfare (Mr. Martin) in his health proposals to this house.

I am also glad that in the speech from the throne reference was made to price support legislation for our farmers. I know that the press across Canada are not too favourably disposed towards this suggestion; and the press, whether we like it or not, have great influence upon the people of Canada. But I feel that floor prices are necessary at the present time. My business is farming, and I have always been a firm believer in the law of supply and demand. I have felt that it has been the greatest equalizer we have had down through the generations. But I feel that the law of supply and demand has been greatly interfered with in recent years, particularly by governments and their controls, not only in our own country but in other countries as well. They interfered with this law to such an extent that the law of supply and demand is not practical at all any more. Eventually, however, as time goes on, I hope that conditions will again return to normal and that price supports and price regulations will not be necessary. But I insist that for the present we need price support for our farm people, and that it is essential that we have it.

The memories of some people I think are very short, when they fail to recall how the farmers of Canada were asked to accept much below world prices during those war years. As long as we have farmer members in this house I hope they and our urban friends as well will continue to recognize this fact, that we for many years accepted prices much below world prices. I know that one should not mention a personal situation; but in my own case as a farmer I took a considerable loss, having regard to the world price, on one commodity, to the extent of $3,000 over a period of five years; and I am only one farmer out of hundreds of thousands across Canada. When this bill is introduced in the house, I hope it will have the support of all hon. members.

While speaking on the subject of agriculture, I should like to mention one other thing

The Address-Mr. Catherwood and direct to it the attention of either the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott) or the Minister of National Revenue (Mr. McCann). I make the plea that some method be devised to simplify the instructions with regard to filling out our income tax forms. I should like to suggest to the minister that the forms themselves be simplified to the extent that they can be interpreted much more easily than is now possible. I should like to quote from a pamphlet which is sent out to the farmers, instructing them how to fill out their income tax forms. I quote from the Hamilton Spectator Ottawa correspondent:

Where the taxpayer has in a taxation year regularly used a property in part for the purpose of gaining or producing income from farming, and in part for a purpose other than gaining or producing income, the depreciable cost of the property for the purpose of this part, is the proportion of the amount that would otherwise be the depreciable cost, that the use regularly made of the property for the purpose of gaining or producing from farming is of the whole use regularly made of the property.

That is very simple.

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PC

Gordon Knapman Fraser

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fraser:

As clear as mud.

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PC

A. Earl Catherwood

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Catherwood:

I was glad the Department of National Revenue recognized the fact that farmers are clever people. It is true that they can interpret that instruction, but it takes considerable time; and I know that the farmers of Canada would like to spend more of the time on actual farming operations.

Another matter to which I should like to draw your attention, Mr. Speaker, is one that was mentioned by the hon. member for Cam-rose (Mr. Beyerstein); that is that we should have some type of coal policy for Canada. The hon. member for Vancouver-Quadra (Mr. Green), I think, mentioned the matter. One reason why I suggest that some type of coal policy be inaugurated for the Dominion of Canada is the recent coal strike in the United States, which we are happy to know has been settled. It caused a difficult situation to exist in Canada. The resulting coal shortage caused dealer rationing throughout many sections of Canada. The strike paralysed our rail transportation system. We are glad the Minister of Transport (Mr. Chevrier) announced this afternoon that the services on this transportation system will be resumed. The strike also caused the paralysing of industry throughout Canada to a large degree, all because of dependence on the whims and words of one man, John L. Lewis. I do not think there is any member of this house who is not agreeable to the salary or the wages earned by these men who go down into the bowels of the earth and mine coal. They are subject to great danger; we all recognize that

soo

The Address-Mr. Catherwood

fact, and we would not for one moment suggest that they are earning too much money. But we do suggest that when one man can paralyse industry in a country outside his own, it is high time that our government gave consideration to some type of national coal policy that would utilize our own coal resources in this country.

I should like to quote some figures which will indicate just how big a business coal is, having regard to importation:

Imports from U.S. Tons

Briquettes of coal or coke 166,270

Anthracite screenings 8,708

Anthracite domestic sizes .. 2,704,553

Anthracite smaller sizes ... 562,048

Coal bituminous 16,596,310

Coalex warehoused ships stores 345,408

Value $ 1,939,618 53,143 33,312,066 3,954,640 86,539,036 1,871,312

Total 20,383,297 $127,669,815

It will thus be seen that we in Canada are paying a fairly high price for the coal war in the United States.

I feel that this latest threat to our economy should be the straw that has broken the camel's back. We have great undeveloped hard coal resources in northwestern Canada which can be mined cheaply enough to make it possible to ship by rail to the head of the lakes and thence by boat down to southern and western Ontario.

We also have large coal supplies in the maritimes awaiting orders from central Canada, if we had a policy that would encourage and further the mining of this fuel. Assurance of a market for the product of these mines would not only contribute to the stabilization of industry but would be a powerful factor in bringing about a .more equal balance of trade. I therefore urge upon the government that they give serious consideration to implementing a coal policy for Canada.

I wish to say a word about immigration and citizenship. I think that our system of immigration is one that will require a forward, selective policy on the part of the government. I am happy that the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) has seen fit to appoint a full-time Minister of Citizenship and Immigration in the person of Walter Harris. He is young and aggressive; and we hope he will give strong and vigorous leadership to this new department, something which is urgently needed in our department of immigration.

There are those who feel that our immigration should be cut to the minimum particularly in difficult times. This, to my mind, would not be a sound policy. We in Canada have always prided ourselves upon the fact that our population has been increasing year by year. When we read the statistics

that are published and see that our population has increased, we are happy. I think it is very essential for Canada, if such is the case. Where would Canada be today if it did not have a good immigration system? At the turn of the century, back in 1900, we had a population of a little over five million people. In 50 years our population has increased to 13,728,000 people, according to the last figures issued by the bureau of statistics. The other day the hon. member for Lake Centre (Mr. Diefenbaker) told me that the fathers of confederation planned that we should have forty or fifty niillion people in Canada by 1950. Our progress has been slow, but I do feel it is necessary that we continue a selective policy of immigration in order to promote and develop the industries of Canada. By a process of a selective immigration system for our farms and for our vast new prolific fields of production that are being opened up and will continue to be opened up in an increasingly high degree as a result of the amazing recent discoveries of crude oil, iron ore, titanium, uranium and other valuable natural resources, Canada will go forward by leaps and bounds. If these new sources of production are to be fully developed, and thei economic independence of our country maintained in so doing, Canada must increase her manpower to the point that will make this development possible.

It was through a selective system of immigration over many years that our great neighbour to the south, the United States of America, built up her population to the point where without question she is recognized as the strongest nation in the world today.

There is another part of this ministry that is perhaps, while generally not considered as such, just as important as immigration, namely, citizenship. It is in this connection that we as citizens have a responsibility, and in accepting it we can play an integral part in the reception we extend to our new Canadians. The part we play in this regard begins where immigration ends. These people who come to our country have left behind the traditions and associations of the old world in the hope of coming to a land where people are free. The vastness of our land, the difference in language and in culture are so significant that time must elapse before they can accept the Canadian way of life and become good citizens. The town of Thorold, Ontario, takes top honours in this country in its welcome to our new Canadians. I should like to quote from the Financial Post of March 12, 1949:

Thorold has recognized the fact that newcomers to Canada are perhaps more susceptible to red agents and red propaganda, so through the council and the board of trade, they sell themselves to

these new citizens by a heart-warming demonstration of friendliness and good will-the offer of unstinting help, opportunity offered wherever possible and genuine interest shown.

To quote the words of a grateful Hungarian, "You have made us welcome-you have showed your interest in us and that we are wanted-and that we belong-this is more than food and drink to us to know we are one of you."

The board of trade in that town visit the newcomers shortly after they become settled. They are then invited to spend an evening at some of the homes of the members. They offer the services of the board of trade to explain our customs, our monetary system, our educational and recreational facilities, et cetera.

That is but a part of the effort that is put forth to welcome these new Canadians. Let us remember also that we can show Cana-dianism to these newcomers only by the reception we give them, by not recognizing them as strangers, not recognizing them as foreigners. That is not a very good word. We do not like that. If we go to a strange country we do not like to be classed as foreigners. Let us recognize them as friends. Let us extend to them sympathy and friendliness. Sympathy and kindness shown and extended openly and with sincerity will create a warm feeling among them towards this new country of Canada and will greatly speed their readjustment to their new way of life.

The hon. member for Vancouver-Quadra (Mr. Green) asked the government to inaugurate a social security policy during this session and to abolish the means test and to set up a pension plan on a contributory basis. This was also emphasized this evening by the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Knowles). I do believe that this is something which is uppermost in the minds of the people of Canada today. I do not think there is any question of more paramount importance that we can deal with. Therefore I urge, as the hon. member for Vancouver-Quadra did the other evening, that we immediately get down to business and indicate to our older citizens of Canada the sincerity of every hon. member and that we put this suggestion into effect as soon as possible.

In conclusion I wish to say one word about the riding which I represent. I shall be brief. We are celebrating our one hundredth anniversary this coming summer in Haldimand county. It will be one of the biggest events that has ever happened in the county during those one hundred years. The Governor General and Lady Alexander have already accepted an invitation to be present. I should like to extend an invitation to every hon. member to come down and visit us during the coming summer, beginning in July and ending in August. I should like to extend an invitation to the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent). The Prime Minister was in our

The Address-Mr. Kickham county last year on official business, but I was not privileged to welcome him on that occasion. If he and all the members of his cabinet will come down next July we will give them all a very enjoyable time in Haldimand county. I promise you that all the facilities of the county will be at your disposal. We will give you the key to the county. I know that when you come back to Ottawa you will say: "Well, I have seen everything."

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LIB

Thomas Joseph Kickham

Liberal

Mr. T. J. Kickham (Kings):

Mr. Speaker, in rising to take part in this debate I wish to join with previous speakers in extending congratulations to the mover (Mr. Larson) and the seconder (Mr. Dumas) of the motion for an address to His Excellency the Governor General in reply to his speech at the opening of the session.

I should like first to say something concerning our fishing industry, which is an important industry in the maritimes, and particularly in the province of Prince Edward Island. I was greatly pleased with the progressive program, as outlined by the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Mayhew), with a view to improving quality, extending better inspection services, finding markets, and educating fishermen and potential consumers on how to prepare fish in a palatable and appealing manner for the table, as well as assisting fishermen in submarginal areas in a financial way.

The educational features of how, for example, to defrost fish and the numerous ways that fish can be placed on the table, cannot be over-emphasized. Preparing fish in an attractive manner could easily, I believe, lead to a much greater consumption of fish in Canada. Canadians consume approximately twelve pounds of fish per person per year. In Europe the consumption is approximately thirty-five pounds per person per year, so that in relation to the European consumption there would appear to be a strong potential market to be developed in Canada. I do hope that the program outlined by the minister and his efficient staff may be vigorously pursued to fruition.

I pointed out to this house last year, and which the minister is fully aware of, the need of dredging our shoal harbours and in some harbours extending the protection to deeper water to permit free entry and departure of boats. Until this work is accomplished we will have continued dissatisfaction among our fishermen and packers.

We have come to the time when our fishermen require larger boats of the dragger type. The small-sized boats now being used for trawling hake and cod are practically useless in inshore fishing. With this boat the fishermen are waiting for the fish to come to them.

The Address-Mr. Kickham

Now with the larger boats equipped for dragging, the fishermen can go where the fish are to be found. Our fishermen will be gratified to know that this government is assisting in the construction of larger boats, with an outright grant of $165 per ton per boat.

There is some argument pro and con as to whether draggers destroy the feeding grounds of fish. I have talked with experienced fishermen, and they are not decided on whether the draggers injure the food used by the fish, and kill the smaller fish. It would not do any harm in the maritime provinces if our fishermen used draggers for a time at least; and if the time came when the fishermen felt that the numbers of fish were becoming depleted other methods no doubt could be found.

I have had many electors in my county expressing their desire for the abolition of the means test and reducing the age limit to sixty-five years. In this respect, I am pleased to know that this government is naming a committee to make recommendations to the government and, based on their findings, the government will be in a position to adopt appropriate measures. I trust that the committee's deliberations will result in added security for the aged, so that this government may enact concurrent legislation.

Expressing my view on the question of radio, licence fees should be discontinued, thereby eliminating costly administration and collection costs, and substituting therefor an increase in the sales tax commensurate with the need.

Coming to agriculture, I wish to commend the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) and the government on coming to the rescue of producers of eggs, cheese, butter and hogs with support prices and bonuses. In our province in January last, eggs had reached the low level of 19 cents for grade A and 13 cents per dozen for grade C. These were ruinous prices for egg producers. The markets for beef, veal and lamb are very satisfactory.

We are hopeful that the Department of Agriculture will give us a support price on potatoes for this year only, to assist in stabilizing the very depressed market which at present exists.

Many of our potato growers believe, however, that a support price on potatoes induces speculators to grow potatoes, with the result that each year we find we have too great a quantity to market, with accompanying depressed market conditions. I would like very much to see the potato-growing industry left to the genuine and bona fide farmer, thus giving him some cash in the fall season to buy fuel and clothing for his family. These speculators in the potato-growing industry, because they command greater finances than

the ordinary farmer, spoil the chance of the bona fide farmer making any profit on his operations) causing much distress and disappointment.

Because of overproduction during the past two years, the federal government is besieged with requests for a support price. The government is reluctant to meet these demands on a perishable product such as potatoes. My opinion is that a support price invites speculators other than the bona fide and stable farmer to grow more potatoes than our present and foreseeable markets can absorb.

There are two means, in my opinion, of curtailing production. One is restricting the acreage that can be grown. The second is the imposition of a levy per acre per grower. I would favour the latter as a more effective measure of controlling production, and I should like to submit tentative suggestions to the members of this house for their consideration, realizing, as I do, that any remedial action must come from the governments of each of the provinces, the federal government having no jurisdiction in this field. Nevertheless, if what I am going to suggest appeals to the members, they could discuss the matter with their provincial departments of agriculture.

I submit the following:

That all provincial governments impose a levy on all potato growers in their respective provinces.

1. In the case of those who plant over one hundred acres, a levy of $25 an acre be imposed.

2. From fifty acres to one hundred acres, a levy of $20 per acre.

3. From thirty-five to fifty acres, a levy of $15 per acre.

4. From twenty to thirty-five acres, a levy of $10 per acre.

5. From twenty acres and under, no levy.

I firmly believe that if the provinces would

pass legislation to this effect it would be a practical way of controlling potato surpluses and retaining the potato growing industry for the bona fide growers. The growing of up to twenty acres per farm works nicely in with a crop rotation, having a great effect in cleansing the farm of noxious weeds, because of the intense cultivation which is necessary in the growing crop. Now, if the provinces agreed to some such measures, I think we could expect a healthy market condition each year and possibly the provincial governments might derive some revenue, rather than being subject to demands for support prices each year.

It is my duty to express my views, as I see them now, concerning assistance in our

The Address-Mr. Kickham

province, as compared with assistance granted to other provinces of Canada. It would appear to me that our share of federal grants, placing these on a per capita basis, is relatively small in comparison with our sister provinces. For example, there are many grants of which other provinces can avail themselves but which are denied to us because they do not apply to us. Other provinces, as I have said, enjoy money grants, such as grants for slum clearance, assistance under the Emergency Gold Mining Assistance Act, the Prairie Farm Assistance Act, the National Housing Act and encouragement for mining and the development of oil resources. So that to place us as a province on a par with the other provinces, we should receive special consideration in federal grants that do apply to our province.

At this time, I shall confine myself to one, namely, education. As I pointed out to the house last year, our teachers are the lowest paid of any province in Canada. I have here some figures from the bureau of statistics in this connection which might be of interest to hon. members. The table before me gives a comparison of the salaries paid teachers in the different provinces and, for the purpose of demonstrating the point I am making, I should like to place on record the salaries paid for male and female teachers in a one-room school first in Prince Edward Island and then in Ontario. The male teacher in Prince Edward Island receives $950 and the female $925 whereas in Ontario for the same type of work the salary is $1,580 for the male teacher and $1,516 for the female. I have pointed out that this condition exists because in Prince Edward Island we have the lowest per capita earnings in Canada.

We are in need of money to provide for technical and vocational education. Our surplus population moves to central and western Canada. I should like to have the house realize that money provided for education for our boys and girls in Prince Edward Island is not charity at all, but is the soundest investment this government can make. All the provinces would share in such investment in having our boys and girls migrating to other provinces educated as bookkeepers, surveyors, engineers, technicians, doctors, nurses, et cetera. Educated in surroundings and an environment that are ideal, as things are now, the larger number of the boys and girls educated in the province move out to the other provinces, where there is continual expansion and where the opportunities are awaiting them. These young people come from families that have funds to educate them; but for those young people leaving our province with very little education, because

their parents are too poor to give them an education, they must take the pick and shovel jobs. Many of the girls find domestic work in Montreal, which I maintain is unfair. Our boys and girls should enjoy equal rights in the field of education, comparable to that which is given to the boys and girls in our sister provinces. I could give hon. members figures on our per capita earnings as compared to the other provinces, but I gave the per capita earnings to the house last session and I will not repeat them today. I believe every hon. member of the house, and the government as well, wish to treat our province fairly. Canada cannot have a healthy body if any member of that body is ailing.

I am sure that there is not a member of this house who would wish to deprive the weaker sister of the ten provinces of equal rights with the other provinces. The hon. member for Kindersley (Mr. Larson) made a significant statement when he said that the maritime provinces were regarded by western Canada as being in practically a different world. I fully agree that there should be a greater knowledge and understanding between the provinces, and the government could then more readily effect an economic levelling off so that all provinces would share equally in Canada's economy as they do in direct and indirect taxation.

Having said that, I should like to submit some figures. The prairie provinces received from the dominion government under the Prairie Farm Assistance Act during the years 1947, 1948 and 1949, the years for which I have figures, $11,156,147, $17,669,568 and

$14,382,805 respectively. Under the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act during the same years they received $2,354,448, $3,546,627 and $4,857,560 respectively. During the past three years an amount of $4,179,742.35 has been paid out for the development of oil resources, while during the same period $3,332,196.07 has been paid out in grants by the bureau of mines. During the past nineteen months a total of $15,613,051.60 has been paid out under the gold mining assistance act.

I am firmly convinced that the federal government was fully justified in assisting these provinces to the extent they have and I hope they will continue to do so in an effort to promote further development of the natural resources of Canada. I should like to quote from a statement made in 1935 by the former Prime Minister, Right Hon. William Lyon Mackenzie King, as follows:

The Liberal party recognizes that the problem of distribution has become more important than that of production and believes that personality is more sacred than property. It will devote itself to finding

The Address-Mr. Kickham ways and means of effecting a fair and just distribution of wealth and increasing regard to human need, to the furtherance of social justice and the promotion of the common good.

I should like to add to those words the following words spoken by the present Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) thirteen years later:

We will not be satisfied until, in co-operation with the provincial governments, we have achieved a national standard of social security and human welfare which assures the greatest possible measure of social justice to all Canadians.

I submit that there is a wide difference between the treatment accorded those provinces and the treatment accorded to the mari-times, and I am now speaking of Prince Edward Island particularly. I think our young people are a valuable asset upon which the other provinces have been drawing and we have not received any equitable reimbursement for the cost of their education. It is estimated that from the beginning of a child's school years until graduation into a profession the total cost is approximately $10,000. The grant to returned veterans who wished to take advantage of the government's offer for further education averaged $2,012, making a total of $110,400,139 to October 31. Many of the 54,859 veterans who took advantage of the government's offer stayed only a short time in the training schools and this lowered the average cost. When we realize that in this house of 262 members there are 156 members who come from Quebec and Ontario, called central Canada, with only 106 from the remaining eight provinces, we have an indication of the population of that central area.

I agree with what has been said by the hon. member for Regina City (Mr. McCusker) and the hon. member for Charlotte (Mr. Stuart) with regard to the possibilities of developing a mining industry in Nova Scotia instead of having the ore sent up the St. Lawrence river. There are great possibilities and this development would create a market for our home grown products. In this connection I should like to quote the words of Premier Jones of Prince Edward Island, who on March 2 said:

When I see that 2,000,000 tons of ore are going to be stock-piled in Labrador ready for shipment up the St. Lawrence to western Ohio through the canals, it seems to me the height of foolishness. Leaving Seven Islands a boat could sail down to Baie Verte and into Portland just as quick as she could reach Montreal. It seems ridiculous to think of taking ore there because the Bethlehem Steel Company has established a big plant not far from Philadelphia. Why does not the ore go up the St. Lawrence instead of going down the Atlantic coast?

What right have they to build locks at our expense, when the bridge goes over the strait of Canso. There is no reason why Sydney could not become a great steel empire.

[Mr. Kickham.1

With the opening up of the Chignecto canal Nova Scotia could become the Pittsburgh of the maritimes. Over the years since confederation under all governments the maritimes have proved to be a prolific mine for central Canada, both economically and in the providing of talented human beings. Should the maritimes be suddenly shorn off from central Canada I am sure that the perpetually productive old milch cow would be missed. The permitted increase in freight rates further militates against the maritime provinces in their competition in central Canadian markets.

In conclusion, may I say that the young people from my province go to the other provinces of Canada entertaining no fanatical heresies or economic theories in connection with trade, monetary or social matters, such as we hear in this house from the C.C.F. group. There is no problem of assimilation as islanders have relatives and friends in every province of Canada. The C.C.F. had candidates in our province contesting the election, but they did not get to first base, losing their deposits each time. I can assure the leader of the C.C.F., the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar (Mr. Coldwell), that we welcome his candidates. The government can use their deposits for social aid purposes which he pretends to champion.

Our people do not lend themselves readily to flighty economic and political theories. They prefer to rely on the two permanent and stable political parties, namely, the Liberal and Conservative parties, who have led Canada through the trying stages of development and while in the embryo period. The fact that we have now reached the status of a full-fledged nation is in no small measure due to those stalwart parties.

(Translation):

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PC

Henri Courtemanche

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Henri Couriemanche (Labelle):

Mr. Speaker, may I begin my remarks on a rather sad note. A parish in my district has been the scene of a tragedy of a rather unusual nature. In the province of Quebec, as elsewhere, during the winter months river roads on the ice are used as short cuts. This practice has caused in the village of Labelle an accident which has been widely reported in the newspapers and to which I feel I should draw the sympathetic attention of the hon. members of this house.

Four people were crossing lake Labelle in a car. The ice broke and the car slid into the icy waters. Only one of the occupants was able to free himself, while the three others perished under conditions of anguish and suffering that can be well imagined. Two of the occupants were imprisoned in the car.

I wish to deplore the trouble we had in finding a properly equipped diver. We telephoned Halifax and were told no equipment was available for a 225-foot dive since the pressure at that depth would be 91 pounds per square inch. We were even informed that only the United States Navy owned equipment that could be used under such a pressure. Would it not be possible to provide the national harbours of Montreal with suitable equipment and save us in future from risking too many lives? The local people had to work in shifts of 25 on the ice surface in sub-zero weather with improvised means.

Public opinion in the province of Quebec has been stirred for some time by the question as to whether Count Jacques de Bernon-ville will be deported or not. I know that his case is being considered by the department of immigration. I know nothing whatever of his past in France, but recently the hon. member for Bonaventure (Mr. Arsenault) supplied us with a fairly condensed account of it.

That he was condemned to death by an exceptional tribunal, by a political court of justice made up of members of the underground forces and of communists does not make one iota of difference in his favour or against him.

Is it any wonder that he came into Canada without a passport? When leaving their country, opponents of a political system are seldom privileged to have their passport visaed.

During the rebellion of 1837, had the United States required papers in proper form from Louis Joseph Papineau and William Lyon Mackenzie, grandfather of the predecessor of the present Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent), both of them would have been returned and hanged with the others. Like every civilized nation, England has been giving refuge to newcomers without asking them whether they had been sentenced to death in absentia. Would Canada be more backward in 1950 than was Britain at the end of the eighteenth century?

I find it hard to understand the government's relentless attitude towards Jacques de Bernonville. A principle of justice and fair play is involved. Why this drastic application of a regulation which in all fairness does not hold in his case? A perusal of the files of the immigration branch will show that other foreigners have entered Canada under the same circumstances as Count Jacques de Bernonville, but they have been

6, 1950 gfF

The Address-Mr. Courtemanche spared the tribulations imposed upon this man and his family over the past two years. History records numerous precedents.

In March 1939, 500,000 Spanish refugees entered France without valid passports and were granted the right of sanctuary.

In 1936, Manuel Azana, former Spanish minister, fled to France to escape persecution. He died peacefully at Montauban, November 4, 1940.

Francisco Largo Caballero, known as the Spanish Lenin, who became Spain's first socialist prime minister, in 1936, took refuge in France, without first obtaining a legal visa. He was never molested and died at Paris in March 1946.

By the peace treaty signed in the Hall of Mirrors at Versailles on June 28, 1919, 27 countries had agreed to request and demand the extradition of Kaiser William II. Yet he died at Doom, a small Dutch village, without having been brought to trial.

All these facts add up in favour of Count Jacques de Bernonville.

Though pagans, both the Greeks and the Romans granted legal protection to foreigners and recognized the right of sanctuary. Would Canada refuse to grant asylum to a Frenchman who did us the honour of believing in Canadian freedom? The government of my country must act in such a manner that we will feel proud of being Canadians.

May I now congratulate the new Clerk on having provided the house with a bilingual diagram. This innovation was needed in order that the two official languages might be placed on an equal footing in parliament and in the country. This gesture also testifies, in the most straightforward and commendable manner, to the genuine Canadian patriotism of the man who is responsible for it.

I am sorry, however, that I cannot entertain the same flattering views about the government's present policy. It seems this country is walking into three blind alleys, namely: the loss of our markets, the resulting unemployment and, as a natural consequence, communism.

The taxpayers of my constituency are disappointed. During the last war the Liberal party asked us to make sacrifices to ensure security in the post-war period. This policy proved to be shortsighted. Though we were promised prosperity, we are now faced with a real economic depression. It is all very well for the government to claim that conditions were never better, but our farmers

506 HOUSE OF

The Address-Mr. Courtemanche have had a difficult year and the future is dark, while the number of unemployed keeps growing in our large cities.

Our eyes are being opened. The Quebec voter realizes he has been duped. He was misled when Liberal orators promised prosperity and praised the agreements signed with Great Britain, which were supposed to grant us the enviable privilege of being the British market's only suppliers. While this idea was being spread among the public by Liberal propaganda, the federal cabinet was well aware that Sir Stafford Cripps, on behalf of the United Kingdom, had advised the Canadian government that they would buy nothing, or very little, from this country.

The policy of agricultural security implemented by the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) has collapsed. Actually the results of this lack of foresight have been felt for some time now. This is what Mr. Gerard Filion had to say about it in the January 31, 1948 issue of Le Devoir:

The whole agricultural policy of this country must be completely overhauled. We have systematically refused to sell to those who wanted to buy our products and obstinately sought to sell to those who no longer wish to buy from us. Soon we will be in the rather uncomfortable position of the man who has to sit between two chairs.

Canada could have taken advantage of wartime and post-war conditions to increase the number of its export markets in order to achieve a better balance of trade. If could have found profitable markets in the United States and, through extensive exports of agricultural products, made up for its shortage of American dollars.

In order to fulfil our contracts with Great Britain, the export of bacon, cattle and cheese to the United States was prohibited. The dollar crisis was created artificially. Restrictions on travel and purchases in the United States became necessary. Our economy was upset in the .hope of securing remote profits and illusory security.

It is worth-while to recall that during the war, farmers were requested to make all kinds of sacrifices in order first to win the war, then to help to rehabilitate Great Britain. Thus, while Argentina sold her wheat to Great Britain at $3.55 per bushel, we in Canada sold it for only $1.55. And the same thing applied to all our goods, to everything we exported overseas.

The Minister of Agriculture realized his lack of foresight so well that he stated last fall:

I realize that it is rather hard for Canadian farmers to learn that Great Britain relies on them only in wartime.

On another occasion, the same minister, upon being questioned by reporters, probably after uttering bitter words against Great Britain, had this to say:

On more than one occasion, I have claimed that the British authorities were endeavouring to prevent us from selling our goods on their market and I have nothing to take back.

That is how things stand, Mr. Speaker. We have lost our markets and we have sacrificed them in vain. Our industries are at a standstill and our people are worried, but we lack the markets to help them.

The machine is idle, the plant is about ready to shut down, and our workers are going through a pre-unemployment period, all on account of our lack of markets. And yet our country is rich in land, in raw materials and in manpower. Do we realize that the loss of these markets involves unemployment? We must face it. That evil, worse than one of the plagues of Egypt, the scourge of our time, is the curse visited not upon our workers but upon the responsible ones, our present leaders.

It is alarming and shameful that it should be impossible to enjoy a certain comfort in a country where everything is plentiful. Vox populi, vox Dei. The people claim the right to live and to subsist. The unemployed grumble, threaten, cry for vengeance against those who nap, beat about the bush and follow a policy from which one may only conclude that a certain propertied and ruling class is not suffering. We feel that people will not stand for this situation as they did from 1929 to 1939. In those years, there was submission, fear. Today, people realize that the guilty parties who have shirked their responsibilities are napping. Organized unemployment, as is evidenced today, is apt to bring unpleasant surprises. It will breed men difficult to handle.

How can we blame the unemployed? Call them lazy, improvident. They will tell you they were not unemployed yesterday because there was work to be had. They have none now and they are laid off by the thousands. The present rulers are responsible since, in governing, they must have foresight and they have failed to show any.

Many were startled to learn that the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) had asked municipalities to go further into debt in order to undertake projects to relieve unemployment.

The federal government caused a housing shortage by displacing workers, by sending our building materials overseas and by promoting settlement in urban centres. When the load became too heavy, it passed the buck to the provinces. By rent control, the dominion government is placing too heavy a burden on thousands of tenants, while it is dealing most unfairly with some landlords. When things reach a breaking point and protests surge from everywhere the government throws up its hands and dumps rent control into the lap of the provinces.

Let us not forget that unemployment is the breeding ground of disorder, poverty, unrest and communism. Unemployment leads to communism. It must therefore be averted. We have tried to fight it with words but that was a wasted, futile, useless effort. People do not yet understand why there was so much employment and money in wartime and why there is so little now, in peacetime. If money is found for destructive ends, it should also be available for constructive purposes. Should the fact that consumers are too few in number justify starvation in the homes of the jobless?

We now dread a third world war. It is feared that the Russians have discovered the secret of the atomic and hydrogen bombs.

Have we forgotten that communists are already waging this third war by taking over surrounding countries one at a time? Have we forgotten that, in their fifth column, which is well established in every country including Canada, they have the best weapon in existence?

This fifth column is wide awake at present but will prove even more efficient when the time comes for action.

Communists are now active in Canada in three different main groups: (a) labour

organizations; (b) study and cultural organizations; (c) the civil service.

All this has been proved during the Kellock-Taschereau investigation, yet the Ottawa government refuses to take the firm steps required by the situation.

Far be it from me to make excuses for communism, which, in the words of Leo XIII, is a fatal plague that infects the very marrow of society and destroys it. I know too much about its workings not to condemn it. The communists will lose the next war, should they provoke or start it, but unemployment, this breeding ground of discontent, this mixture of confused causes, will make people

The Address-Mr. Sinnott look upon communism as the solution to the eternal social question.

I therefore request the government to attend to these alarming wounds, to heal them. That is within its powers as well as within its duties. There is no reason why any one of our citizens should not be able to live in a country 3,700,000 square miles in area.

In my own name, in that of my constituency, of my province, of my own race, in the name of the whole country which is threatened with the same crisis, the same miseries, I beseech those in power to put an end to this sad state of affairs.

Let us find jobs for our people. That is the only way to earn a salary. Whatever work is found, let it be, not just any work, but useful work, constructive work which will benefit our country. Let us not fight communism with words, but with action, honestly, by ensuring to the people what is rightfully theirs-order, justice, prosperity and national security in this fine, powerful and great country of ours.

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LIB

John Sylvester Aloysius Sinnott

Liberal

Mr. J. S. Sinnott (Springfield):

I wish to congratulate you, Mr. Speaker (the Acting Speaker, Mr. Beaudoin), on the position you are now occupying. As you are my former roommate, it gives me great satisfaction to see you there. I also wish to extend congratulations to the mover and the seconder of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. It gives me more satisfaction to extend them to the mover, however, as I have known him for a considerable number of years.

In the great riding of Springfield a few things are happening which I should like the house and the people of Canada, as well as others, to know about. I refer to the $10 million oil refinery which is being built in one part of the constituency. This refinery will employ a number of men for a considerable period of time, and will be of such a size that it will supply all of the oil to Manitoba. I should like to read from a clipping from the Winnipeg Free Press of some time ago. It reads as follows:

Construction on the Imperial Oil Company's $10 million refinery at East St. Paul, Manitoba, will begin about March 15, or as soon as weather permits, J. K. Jamieson of Sarnia, Ontario, manager of the engineering and development division of the company, stated Tuesday.

Mr. Jamieson arrived in Winnipeg Monday with other company officials to complete plans for the construction job.

First work to be undertaken at the 400-acre site, located seven miles north of Winnipeg's city limits, will be building of temporary office quarters, fencing the property and laying a temporary railway siding.

The Address-Mr. Sinnott

Biggest job now on the books of the company's manufacturing department, construction of the plant, will employ between 500 and 600 men during peak activity. May, 1951, is still the date set for completion of the project, Mr. Jamieson said.

With a capacity of 10,000 barrels a day, and working on a 24-hour, seven-day schedule, the refinery will supply all Imperial Oil's petroleum needs in Manitoba. All crude oil for processing will come from western Canada through the Edmonton-Superior oil pipe line now under construction.

"We are planning to bring tank crude to the Winnipeg plant from the oil line at Gretna," Mr. Jamieson explained. "However, possibility of the use of a pipe line from this point is still being discussed," he added1.

The refinery site is adjacent to railway lines of both Canadian National Railways and the Canadian Pacific Railway, and switching facilities are to be installed from both railways.

Refinery plans also include provision for an asphalt plant. Manufacture of this petroleum byproduct depends on the type of oil, the type of asphalt the market requires and the sale for it, officials explained.

Mr. Jamieson emphasized that there would be little or no chance of pollution of the Red river by waste products from the plant.

"Pollution should be kept to a minimum," he said. "We will have all the latest type of equipment to purify the 12 million gallons of water per day that will pass through the refinery."

"Actually, the water should be cleaner coming out of the refinery than that going in," he added.

When completed1 the refinery will have a "tank farm" of 42 storage tanks for both crude oil and finished products, having a total capacity of 35 million gallons.

Products of the plant will be high-grade automobile gasoline, diesel fuel, domestic and industrial fuel oil. No high-octane aviation gasoline will be manufactured, Mr. Jamieson said . . .

The construction company will also let sub-contracts to local firms wherever possible, Mr. Jamieson said.

Used in construction will be, 15,000 feet of fencing. 16 miles of pipe, 8,000 feet of roads, 5,000 yards of concrete, 13,000 tons of steel and 3 miles of railway spur tracks.

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PC

Arthur Leroy Smith

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Smith (Calgary West):

How much sewer?

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LIB

John Sylvester Aloysius Sinnott

Liberal

Mr. Sinnott:

That all depends on you.

Another project which is under way in the riding of Springfield is a $20 million power plant which is now being developed on the Winnipeg river. I take great pride in representing this riding, which is the key to all of Manitoba. In that riding is developed all the power for the whole of Manitoba, and that includes the great city of Winnipeg.

We discussed the unemployment situation here in the house for some considerable time a few days ago; and while some members regard the situation as serious, I myself do not take that attitude. Some members think that governments are a cure-all for this situation. I do not. I think that Canadians as a whole would be doing themselves a great disservice if they had in mind this idea of foisting upon the dominion and provincial governments almost the entire responsibility for handling the unemployment situation.

We must not forget that wholesale spending on giant public works is not a cure-all for unemployment. It merely takes up the slack at times, in most cases causes considerable strain on the purses of both the provincial and dominion governments, and in turn has to be met by the taxpayers themselves. If in the future we should have severe unemployment situations, and I hope we shall not, there should be more intelligent co-operative planning among the businessmen, professional men, labour leaders and ' other authorities. Planning by industry itself goes a long way to create steady employment. I believe that labour leaders can certainly help to develop and put into effect workproviding plans by giving both industry and the government the benefit of the workingman's ability and ideas. Let us not be panicky and be always looking at the black side of the picture, as this sometimes induces a hasty and unwise course of action.

A few days ago I believe the hon. member for Souris (Mr. Ross) stated that there were not many municipal men on this side of the house.

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PC

James Arthur Ross

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Ross (Souris):

You have got me wrong.

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LIB

John Sylvester Aloysius Sinnott

Liberal

Mr. Sinnott:

I am glad the hon. member is in his seat now.

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PC

Arza Clair Casselman (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Progressive Conservative Party)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Casselman:

He is always here.

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LIB

John Sylvester Aloysius Sinnott

Liberal

Mr. Sinnott:

Did I hear him say that I was wrong? In the cabinet we have some municipal men. The Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Mayhew) has had considerable experience. The Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) has had some experience. I believe the Minister of Labour (Mr. Mitchell) has had considerable experience as well. There are other backbenchers on this side of the house who have had considerable experience. I will refer to the hon. member for The Battle-fords (Mr. Bater), who has had about 31 years' experience. We have the hon. member for Mackenzie (Mr. Ferrie), who has had considerable experience. There is the hon. member for Hastings South (Mr. Foil well); the hon. member for Spadina (Mr. Croll); the hon. member for Winnipeg South Centre (Mr. Maybank), who is a parliamentary assistant; the hon. member for Middlesex West (Mr. McCubbin), who is a parliamentary assistant; the hon. member for Nipissing (Mr. Garland); the great hon. member for Fraser Valley (Mr. Cruickshank); the hon. member for New Westminster (Mr. Mott); the hon. member for Lafontaine (Mr. Ratelle); the hon. member for St. Ann (Mr. Healy); the hon. member for Moose Mountain (Mr. Smith); the hon. member for Swift Current (Mr. Whiteside); and then we have the hon. member for Springfield, who served eight years as a municipal reeve, and is reeve

again, in spite of the Free Press editorials. You know, I have a new name. Now they call me two-job John. The editor of the Free Press went out on a limb so far as to call me two-job John and to point out the reason why two-job John could not handle the municipality as well as being a federal member. Well, I left it to the good taste and democracy of the county. I was asked by so many of the ratepayers of the municipality in which I live to run that I allowed my name to stand, and I came down here. I never held a political meeting of any kind, and I was elected without them. We left it entirely to the people themselves. In spite of the Free Press and its editorials we left it, as my friend from Montreal says, to true democracy and to their sound judgment. They would rather listen to someone who had served them for a number of years previously than to a crackpot editor of a newspaper.

Some hon. members on the other side of the house have said that the farmers have lost $2 million; others have said $5 million; and we are at a loss to know which figure is correct. There have been so many estimates that it is difficult to say which is the right figure. We have not yet come to the end of the contract. If there should be any loss, in view of the fact that the government has taken care of the egg producers and other producers, they should make up the loss out of the consolidated revenue fund of Canada.

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PC

James Arthur Ross

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Ross (Souris):

You are a good finance minister.

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PC

Douglas Scott Harkness

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harkness:

What about the "if"?

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LIB

John Sylvester Aloysius Sinnott

Liberal

Mr. Sinnotl:

Farmers as a whole never look for handouts. As hon. members know, during the war many of them worked sixteen to eighteen hours a day, and some of them twenty hours a day to make the same amount of money that the people in the factories were making by working about eight hours a day. Therefore I ask the government to think twice before the end of the contract, and if there is any loss it should be made up out of the consolidated revenue fund of all Canada.

I wish to thank the government for introducing their health plan.

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?

Some hon. Members:

Which one?

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March 6, 1950