April 6, 1949

PC

John Thomas Hackett

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hackett:

-the difficulties which arise when the government takes everything into its own hands, relies upon its own infallibility, and refuses to share with parliament any of the responsibilities that weigh upon it. This, I say, resulted-and when I say "this" I mean the failure of the Minister of Finance to take parliament into his confidence-

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

Order. The item now before the committee has to do with national defence, demobilization and reconversion. I hope the hon. member will not discuss other matters. There is a tendency to stray from the item. The committee will make much more progress if it discusses the items in accordance with the rules. As hon. members know, according to the rules of the house in committee, speeches must be strictly relevant to the item under discussion.

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PC

John Thomas Hackett

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hackefi:

I was endeavouring to point out that it is because of a departure from parliamentary procedure-

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LIB
PC

John Thomas Hackett

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hackeli:

-that great hardship has been visited upon the Canadian people in the realm of finance, and it stems from the same source, arbitrary measures.

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LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

Order. I must ask the hon. member to be good enough to deal with this item, and I hope he will do so; I would ask all other members to do likewise.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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PC

John Thomas Hackett

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hackett:

With great deference, Mr. Chairman, I am dealing with this particular item. I am pointing out that failure to take parliament into its confidence is leading the government astray in most important matters.

I am pointing out furthermore that this is but a renewed expression of the dictatorial methods which have been so prejudicial to Canada during the past ten years. I submit with great deference that so long as I can trace the dangers which are now confronting the country to a malady that has wrought harm elsewhere, I am entitled so to do.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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?

Some hon. Members:

Carried.

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LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

Order. I must insist that the hon. member deal with the item that is before the committee, which is demobilization and reconversion.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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PC

John Thomas Hackett

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hackett:

The item before the committee has to do with just one-quarter of one hundred million dollars which apparently have been spent

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LIB
PC

John Thomas Hackett

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hackett:

-and parliament is now asked to ratify it as one unexplained item. The hon. gentleman, when asked to give an explanation, merely said: Well, it is not in the public interest. Why does the hon. gentleman fear parliament? He and his party will control any committee that is set up for the purpose-

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LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

Order. The question of setting up a committee does not come in here at all. I think I should now read to the hon. member the rules as they appear in Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms, third edition, at page 178, citation 480:

480. The only motion allowed, when a resolution is under consideration in committee of supply, is that the amount be reduced or that the chairman leave the chair (either without making a report or to report progress on certain resolutions). (Can. Deb., 1916, Vol. Ill, p. 2772.)

Each resolution can only be dealt with by being agreed to, reduced, negatived, superseded, or, by leave, withdrawn, and the withdrawal can be made although the decision of the committee has been taken upon amendments proposed to the resolution. Here, the power of the committee ceases. M. 531. It is not allowable to attach a condition of an expression of opinion to a vote or to change the destination of a grant. B. 428.

I must ask the hon. member to be good enough to deal with the item that is before the committee.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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PC

John Thomas Hackett

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hackett:

The passage that you have read, Mr. Chairman, might be invoked had I introduced an amendment upon which you had to rule. But certainly I am not to be denied the right of reasoning with hon. gentlemen opposite as intelligent persons who may be swayed by argument, and who may, by the sad experience that they have had this afternoon, wish to benefit by the experience and the wisdom of parliament and wish to see themselves assisted by a special committee.

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LIB
LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

The hon. member s a parliamentarian of long standing. He mows just as well as I do that it is the duty nd responsibility of the Chair to try to direct lebate; and he knows that speeches in committee must be directly relevant to the item mder consideration. I hope he will confine dmself to the item before the committee.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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?

Donald MacInnis

Mr. Maclnnis:

On the point of order you ;ave raised, Mr. Chairman, I suggest that E the hon. member for Stanstead had wanted o speak as he is trying to speak now he hould have done so before the Speaker left he chair.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

Yes.

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?

Donald MacInnis

Mr. Maclnnis:

Such a discussion would ave been in order before the Speaker left he chair.

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LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

Yes.

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April 6, 1949