April 6, 1949

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Donald MacInnis

Mr. Maclnnis:

There is another time when ; would be in order, and that is when we re discussing the administration item in the stimates of the Department of National icfcnce. But once we have passed the dministration item, we must take each item m order. We shall never get anywhere if re are to insist on discussing administration flairs on the other particular items.

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PC

John Thomas Hackett

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hackett:

I am sure that the government : very grateful for this timely aid.

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Donald MacInnis

Mr. Maclnnis:

Aid which you should be ble to give them, because you have been ere long enough.

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LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

Order.

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PC

John Thomas Hackett

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hackett:

I draw your attention, Mr. hairman, to the fact that we are dealing *ith an item of national defence.

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LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

Yes.

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PC

John Thomas Hackett

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hackett:

We are endeavouring to get )me information concerning this item, and re are met with the very bland answer, pparently satisfactory to some hon. mem-ers, that we are not entitled to it because is not in the public interest to give it. I m asking hon. gentlemen to consider that, no iter than Monday of this week, Canada itered into a treaty which depends-

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Some hon. Members:

Order.

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LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

Order. Surely the an. gentleman is not going to branch off into iat line of discussion. I wish that the hon. iember, with all his parliamentary experi-ice, would read the British Hansard and see hat happens there on the items that are 2ing considered in committee. If he did so 2 would not be rambling all over as he is ying to do now.

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Some hon. Members:

Filibuster.

Supply-National Defence

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PC

John Thomas Hackett

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hackett:

I ask the Chairman if he would be kind enough to take communication of item 605 which is now being debated. It reads:

605. To provide for additional expenditures against the authorized commitment program in connection with the orderly establishment and organization of the defence forces of the navy, army and air services on a peacetime basis and to authorize further commitments for future years of $11,708,000-further amount required, $19,622,583.

My submission is that the committee is not proceeding with this item on the orderly basis which is called for by the item, and that it behooves the minister to give the information which is asked for and not to seek shelter behind these statements, that it is not in the public interest.

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LIB
LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

The hon. member is quite in order in that respect.

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PC

John Thomas Hackett

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hackett:

I am glad to perceive that rays of sunshine and wisdom are finally penetrating the chamber.

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PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

May I interrupt for a moment. I believe there have been appropriate discussions on points of order, but there is another type of order that should be under consideration, and that the kind of noise which has been proceeding from the other side of the house this afternoon should be stopped if respect for this house is to be preserved.

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LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

I agree wholeheartedly with the leader of the official opposition. I do try my best to keep order while I am in the chair, and that is as it should be. I should like to read the rule in regard to debate, which is rule 312:

Whilst a member is addressing the house, no one has a right to interrupt him by putting a question to him, or by making or demanding an explanation. A member will at times allow such interruptions through a sense of courtesy to another, but it is entirely at the option of the member in possession of the floor to give way or not to an immediate explanation.

I hope that all hon. members will remember that.

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LIB

John Ewen Sinclair

Liberal

Mr. Sinclair:

May I speak on the point of order. To be consistent, the leader of the opposition should first reprimand the hon. member for Simcoe North and the hon. member for Eglinton for their disgraceful performances last night.

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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming:

Mr. Chairman, on a question of privilege, a most unparliamentary reference has just been made by the hon. member for Vancouver North which has no basis of fact in it. It is a most improper and most unparliamentary reference, Mr. Chairman, and I ask that you direct the hon. member to withdraw it at once. The expression he

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Supply-National Defence used, namely, "disgraceful performance" is quite unparliamentary, and has been so ruled more than once. The hon. member knows that, and I ask you to direct him to withdraw it.

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LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

The hon. member for Eglinton may have his own ideas about unparliamentary language, but in this particular instance I will not ask the hon. member for Vancouver North to withdraw.

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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming:

Mr. Chairman, you have been asked to rule that the words "disgraceful performance" are unparliamentary. If you look up Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms you will see that there is ample authority for the proposition that that expression is quite unparliamentary, and that no hon. member in this house is entitled to use such language in the house. I ask you, sir, to do your duty and direct the hon. member to withdraw the remark.

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April 6, 1949