June 24, 1948


On the orders of the day:


LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Hon. LIONEL CHEVRIER (Minister of Transport):

I should like to reply to the question asked yesterday by the hon. member for Ottawa East (Mr. Richard), with reference to the transfer of government telephone and telegraph services to the Department of Transport, and whether the Bell Telephone company had been consulted in connection with them. The order in council which was tabled yesterday provides for the transfer of the government telephone and telegraph services to the Department of Transport, save and except those telephone services within the area of the city of Ottawa which will be assigned to the Department of Finance. A certain number of the personnel who were in the Department of Public Works will be

Income Tax Act

assigned to the radio service branch of the Department of Transport. I made the answer yesterday that I was not aware of any negotiations which had been undertaken by the Bell Telephone company with regard to that part of the government telephone and telegraph services which have been assigned to transport; and I find that to be the case.

Topic:   TELEGRAPHS AND TELEPHONES
Subtopic:   TRANSFER OF CONTROL AND SUPERVISION
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INCOME TAX ACT

REVISION AND CONSOLIDATION


Hon. DOUGLAS ABBOTT (Minister of Finance) moved the third reading of Bill No. 338, respecting income taxes.


CCF

Rodney Young

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. RODNEY YOUNG (Vancouver Centre) :

Before the bill is read a third time I should like to make a few remarks with reference to the three per cent tax on co-operatives. Since I arrived in this house I have been inundated with telegrams and letters about that particular section, which is of immense importance to my constituents.

It seems to me that there is a great deal of difference between the principle of the co-operative societies and the principle of normal business, and that the effect of this three per cent tax is to treat the co-operative societies as if they were in business in a normal sense. The effect of the operation of the co-operative societies during the present period of high prices has been to protect the small income man and protect the consumer from the increase in the cost of living. I suggest, therefore that it would be excellent policy on the part of this house to do what it can to protect these organizations in their efforts to give the consumer a decent break.

I should like to point out that certain hon. members, in discussion since I arrived in this house, have more or less publicly regretted that organizations such as trade unions, which originally existed for non-political purposes, have seen fit lately to assume a political complexion. I should like to assure hon. members who make these references that there is a reason for such action on the part of the trade unions. The reason is that they have felt that in the exercise of their function as trade unions, they have not been given sufficient protection by this government and preceding governments, and consequently it has seemed to them to be -wise to support one political party rather than remain non-political. I suggest that hon. members of the house who disapprove this course should take into consideration past history in dealing with the circumstances of the co-operative societies.

Topic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Subtopic:   REVISION AND CONSOLIDATION
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LIB

James Horace King (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order.

5849-366i

Topic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Subtopic:   REVISION AND CONSOLIDATION
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CCF

Rodney Young

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. YOUNG:

I am speaking-

Topic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Subtopic:   REVISION AND CONSOLIDATION
Permalink
?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Sit down.

Topic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Subtopic:   REVISION AND CONSOLIDATION
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LIB

James Horace King (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

I must call the attention of the hon. member to the fact that on second and third reading of a bill only the principle may be discussed, and not the particular clauses. Discussion on the clauses of the bill should take place in committee.

Topic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Subtopic:   REVISION AND CONSOLIDATION
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CCF

Angus MacInnis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. MacINNIS:

It is the principle of the whole bill.

Topic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Subtopic:   REVISION AND CONSOLIDATION
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CCF

Rodney Young

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. YOUNG:

The principle of the bill, so far as I have analysed it, is to regard the co-operatives as normal business houses engaged primarily in trade for the purpose of making progress for their investors, their shareholders, or the associated people in co-operatives. My contention is that it is precisely because the bill regards the co-operative societies in this light that it is not fulfilling the intent of taxation in the normal taxation of the business world. The co-operatives are organizations of consumers designed to protect consumers against the business world, not organizations of consumers to go into business for the express purpose of making profits.

Topic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Subtopic:   REVISION AND CONSOLIDATION
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LIB

Gordon Benjamin Isnor

Liberal

Mr. ISNOR:

Where do they get their reserves?

Topic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Subtopic:   REVISION AND CONSOLIDATION
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CCF

Rodney Young

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. YOUNG:

In any case where people co-operate in order to purchase or to sell products, capital investment is necessary to the continuance of their business.

Topic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Subtopic:   REVISION AND CONSOLIDATION
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LIB

Gordon Benjamin Isnor

Liberal

Mr. ISNOR:

Where do they get their reserves?

Topic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Subtopic:   REVISION AND CONSOLIDATION
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CCF

Rodney Young

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. YOUNG:

They get them by laying aside a portion of the part of the costs which otherwise they would have had to pay to private business in the form of profits.

Topic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Subtopic:   REVISION AND CONSOLIDATION
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LIB
CCF

Rodney Young

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. YOUNG:

The purpose of this bill is the taxation of profits, not taxation to prevent profits. The members of co-operatives are endeavouring to reduce the cost of the commodities which they have to purchase in order to live. Hon. members on the opposite side of the house may find my contention difficult to understand. I have no doubt that it is alien to their philosophy, but I still believe it is correct.

Topic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Subtopic:   REVISION AND CONSOLIDATION
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LIB
CCF

Rodney Young

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. YOUNG:

I believe that in the course of time hon. members will come to see this point of view. Otherwise they will suffer the misfortune which came upon those in Great Britain who took the attitude that is now being taken on this bill. The net result was

Supply-Mines and Resources

that during the first great war the co-operative societies, which formerly had been nonpolitical, were forced into the political field.

Topic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Subtopic:   REVISION AND CONSOLIDATION
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June 24, 1948