June 30, 1947

LIB

James Angus MacKinnon (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Hon. J. A. MacRINNON (Minister of Trade and Commerce):

The answer is no.

Topic:   RATIONING IN BRITAIN
Subtopic:   REPORTED REDUCTION OF IMPORTS INTO UNITED
Sub-subtopic:   KINGDOM-EFFECT ON CANADIAN EXPORTS
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PC

Gordon Graydon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. GRAYDON:

You mean you have

not the information, or is it "no" to the question?

Topic:   RATIONING IN BRITAIN
Subtopic:   REPORTED REDUCTION OF IMPORTS INTO UNITED
Sub-subtopic:   KINGDOM-EFFECT ON CANADIAN EXPORTS
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UNITED NATIONS

ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES


The house in committee on Bill No. 272, to provide for privileges and immunities in respect of the united nations and related international organizations-Mr. St. Laurent- Mr. Golding in the chair. On section 1-Short title.


LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN:

Shall section 1 carry?

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES
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?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Carried.

Mr. BLACIvMORE: Just a minute, Mr. Chairman. Let us not have a runaway on this matter.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES
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?

An hon. MEMBER:

Is that a threat?

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES
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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

It is a request for the privileges of a member of parliament to be recognized. It is high time that the Speaker and various other people began to recognize that members in this house have rights. I should like to make a comment or two with respect to this bill before it goes very far in committee, although I do not desire to delay the committee overmuch on the matter. I have already said that I believe the bill is not a good one and that it should not be passed until we know a good deal more about its implications. Will the minister tell the committee whether or not the passage of this bill commits Canada more fully to the united nations than she would be committed if she did not pass it?

Mr. ST. LAURENT: Perhaps the hon. member will allow section 1 to pass and then put his question on section 2, because section 2 provides for the accession of Canada to the agreement, and I think that is what the hon. member has in mind. His question would be quite relevant to section 2, whereas it might be difficult to make it relevant to section 1, which is just the short title. Is that agreeable to the hon. member?

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES
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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

I have no desire to be uncooperative, but the minister told the house he would be quite willing to permit us to ask a good many questions and to give us considerable latitude in committee on this bill. If he is quite willing that such latitude be granted on section 2, that will be quite satisfactory to me. I should like to ask him several questions and to make some comments.

Mr. ST. LAURENT: I should not like the hon. member to understand me as granting anything. I told him that, under section 2, I thought practically the whole matter could be gone into as of right, because it is relevant to section 2. That is my construction of it; but, of course, like the hon. member himself. I am bound by the rules of the house. I cannot change the rules. I think the question my hon. friend asks and any question along that line will be perfectly relevant to section 2.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES
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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

The minister will

remember that on June 6 we asked pointedly if we could have considerable latitude.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES
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LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN:

Order. Section 1 simply deals with the short title. Shall the section carry?

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES
Permalink
SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

Before section 1 carries, Mr. Chairman, I should like to have you tell us whether or not you are going to grant qs, under section 2, that latitude which we were promised on June 6. There was a specific promise made then.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES
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LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN:

Order.

Mr. ST. LAURENT: I think the hon. member is mistaken. I made no promise to grant any latitude. After the matter had been disposed of and had been referred to the committee, I went to the hon. member and told him that, on my construction of the rules, when we got to section 2 of the bill all these matters would be relevant, because section 2 provides that the governor in council may authorize the accession of Canada to the convention on the privileges and immunities of the united nations. I told the hon. member that I thought it would be quite relevant for

United Nations

him then to discuss whether we should implement the undertaking we had made in the charter.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES
Permalink
SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

What I have reference to is not what the minister said to me after the house had closed that day, but rather to what was specifically stated at page 3892 of Hansard. That was my only concern. I have no desire to be uncooperative, but I want the privilege of asking some questions.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES
Permalink
LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN:

Order. I think if we follow these sections, as we are supposed to in discussing a bill, and deal with the sections as they are, we shall get on better. As I have repeated on so many occasions, every speech in committee must be relevant to the section under discussion. This section 1 is simply on the short title, "This act may be cited as The Privileges and Immunities (United Nations) Act." That is all that is in that section. Shall it carry?

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES
Permalink
SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

There is just one point about it. After having been in this house for a long time, the Chairman knows very well that on section 1 of a bill a wide range of latitude is usually permitted in the asking of questions. [DOT]

Mr. ST. LAURENT: That is not according to the rules. May section 1 stand? I think the hon. member will get everything he wants on the appropriate section. I do not think we should persist in the statement which is being made from time to time, that on section 1 of a bill in committee wide latitude is granted. There cannot be anything granted. I would be perfectly prepared to have section 1 stand. I think he will find that everything he wants to do will be perfectly relevant to section 2 or the other sections of the bill. We can come back to section 1 then, if he has not had satisfaction.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES
Permalink
SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

That meets with my complete approval.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES
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LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN:

There is something more 'to it than that. I think it is about time that members of the house realized that there is no rule which provides for general discussion on the first section of a bill. There is no rule which provides for a discussion on the principle of a bill when it is sent to committee. The principle of the bill is discussed and decided on second reading. If hon. members will look up the rules, they themselves will find that is so. As I said before, I have been in this house for a good number of years and have sat on both sides of it. To my knowledge, every chairman who has presided here has taken exactly the 83166-309

same position as the one I am taking now and have taken from time to time. There is no authority for any chairman to take any other position. I will simply put this question to hon. members: Under what rule can there be general discussion, for instance, on this first section which deals only with the short title? I say that this house could speed up the business by simply observing the rules, which the Chairman is bound to draw to the attention of hon. members, and deal with the sections one by one, as they come up.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES
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PC

Grote Stirling

Progressive Conservative

Mr. STIRLING:

This is somewhat in the nature of a point of order, Mr. Chairman. I would draw your attention to the fact that, although what you have stated with regard to there not being a rule which permits general discussion on section 1, may be correct, it has been the custom which has grown up in this house over many years, and of which the party now in power, made considerable use when in opposition. I could cite a good many instances to that effect. If it is a matter of convenience to the house; if it is something which will not unduly delay the passage of the measure, I suggest to you, Mr. Chairman, that it would be a wise thing to take some note of this precedent which has grown up.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   ACCESSION OF CANADA TO CONVENTION ON PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES
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June 30, 1947