June 19, 1947

LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin (Minister of National Health and Welfare)

Liberal

Mr. MARTIN:

It is an important question. In view of what the hon. gentleman said yesterday, does he know if it is true that the premier of Ontario as a result of the discussions in this house has raised the contribution to the extent that the pension is now $40?

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
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PC

Charles Cecil Ingersoll Merritt

Progressive Conservative

Mr. MERRITT:

This is a speech.

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. FLEMING:

I am sure if the fact is that the premier of Ontario has announced that it is the intention of the government of that province to increase the supplement offered by the province to eke out the inadequate dominion pension, it is not as a result of anything which the federal government has done by way of providing for the old age pensioners, but is a burden which has had to be assumed by the provincial government as a result of the failure of this government to measure up to the responsibility which it has recognized since 1931, which it recognized again in 1945 and has turned tail on since.

We shall not soon forget, Mr. Speaker, that the dominion government increased by $5 a month, by order in council in 1943, the old age pension which then was only $20 a month, only after they had been driven to it by demands from all parts of the country. The same situation exists today. This meagre advance which they have proposed in the pension has been brought about only as a result of widespread demands throughout the whole country. It is the old story of this government being roused from its. inertia only when it is driven. Apparently it must remain for those who sit on this side of the house, as well as for informed opinion throughout the country, to drive this government as long as it is in office and then

at the first opportunity turn it out and make way for a government which will measure up to its responsibilities.

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Veterans Affairs; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE:

You tried it.

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. FLEMING:

Mr. Speaker-

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
Permalink
LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Veterans Affairs; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE:

You tried it several times.

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
Permalink
PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. FLEMING:

It seems that the Minister of Veterans Affairs (Mr. Mackenzie) is in the debate again. I should like to remind him that the government of his province-and he was boasting yesterday about the record of his province-said that it was increasing the old age pension in that province several months ago as a temporary measure while they were waiting for the dominion government, of which he is a member, to do something adequate.

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Veterans Affairs; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE:

I may tell my hon. friend that we led the way as usual.

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. FLEMING:

Knowing the record of this government as we do, the house will be able to add two and two together and make four. Putting the speech of the Minister of National Health and Welfare of yesterday with the speech made by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott) in this house on March 28, I think it will add up to this, that the provinces which have been induced to come into agreements have been forced to buy a pig in a poke, and this is as much as they may expect to get by way of old age pension. Here is what the Minister of Finance had to say in this house,' as reported at page 1841 of Hansard, when he was asked what was the meaning of the statement which he made in Toronto-[DOT]

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Veterans Affairs; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE:

Order.

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
Permalink
PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. FLEMING:

-when he said-

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
Permalink
LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Veterans Affairs; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE:

Order.

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
Permalink
PC

Charles Cecil Ingersoll Merritt

Progressive Conservative

Mr. MERRITT:

Paraphrase it.

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
Permalink
PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. FLEMING:

I am referring to a speech by the Minister of Finance.

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
Permalink
LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Veterans Affairs; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE:

The hon. member must not quote from a debate of the present session.

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
Permalink
PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. FLEMING:

He said that the dominion government would have to take account, in coming to negotiate with the provinces with reference to social security measures, the increase that the dominion had given in its successive offers to the provinces with respect to tax agreements, and the increase in the last offer was $26,000,000. The Minister of Finance intimated at that time that when the dominion government comes to sit down with the provinces and discuss a comprehensive system of

Old Age Pensions

social security, if it ever does, that $26,000,000 would be taken into account. Now you have the answer in the speech made yesterday by the Minister of National Health and Welfare.

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
Permalink
LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Veterans Affairs; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE:

A good speech, too.

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
Permalink
PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. FLEMING:

These provinces which had been led by the dominion government proposals of 1945 to expect that the dominion was going to honour those proposals and assume the entire cost of old age pension for persons of seventy years and over without a means test, find that now they may expect to have the load cast upon them and that the ultimate contribution of the dominion is to be seventy-five per cent of the pension of $30, with the continued means test. There, it seems to me, you 'have the complete explanation, putting two and two together. And of course the dominion government, politically astute as it is, is now seeking to cover up the tracks it made in retreating from its proposals. It has cast about for a scapegoat, and is trying to find in the governments of Ontario and Quebec that scapegoat to excuse the dominion government for its failure to honour its own promises made in 1945. It will take a lot more than the kind of guff that was perpetrated upon this house yesterday by hon. members opposite, including the minister, to satisfy any sensible person in this country that the responsibility of the federal government for failure to 'honour its obligations rests upon anyone except the federal government itself.

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. THOMAS REID (New Westminster):

Mr. Speaker, in rising to take part in this debate my first words are of congratulation to the Minister of National Health and Welfare (Mr. Martin) for the splendid speech he delivered the other day and for his outline of the entire history of old age pensions right from its inception, together with the steps in social legislation which have been taken by the Liberal government of this country right from 1927 to the present date. As I sat here yesterday afternoon listening to the discussion I wondered if once again the old people of this country were going to be deluded bj' some of the speeches delivered by the opposition the other day; if once again this important subject was going to be made a football by the opposition, in an attempt to ride into office on the backs of our senior citizens. So today I am warning our senior citizens to take some of the statements made here yesteray afternoon not with a grain of salt but with a quantity of salt, because some of them were simply preposterous.

I am sorry the leader of the opposition (Mr. Bracken) and the leader of the C.C.F. party (Mr. Coldwell) are not here, at the

moment, because I have something to say about their speeches. Referring first to the remarks of the leader of the official opposition, let me say to the hon. gentleman and his followers that some of us are just wondering- though we are glad it has happened-why Colonel Drew has just seen fit to increase the pension in Ontario to $40 a month. They may say it has not been expediency, that it has not been pressure, that it has not been because of this bill. But why has he delayed until this late date in giving the poor people of the province of Ontario that to which they have been entitled for a long time?

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. FULTON:

Why did the dominion

government delay until this late date in giving them anything?

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Sub-subtopic:   INCREASES IN AMOUNTS AND INCOME ALLOWANCE REQUIREMENTS-MODIFICATIONS OF ELIGIBILITY
Permalink

June 19, 1947