I am sure the men will appreciate that. I do not know for certain, but I have heard that the number who are
likely to come here from the veterinary college will not be over three or four. If that be the case, we cannot expect much increase in the work done by the health of animals branch for at least another year. In the meantime there are three counties in Ontario which have dropped back from the status of accredited areas. I hope hon. members will not criticize me for using Ontario figures and not the figures of other provinces. It is not that I am trying to differentiate, because I know the same will be true all across Canada. Three counties have lost the accredited area status, and one more county will lose it this year. The counties that have lost it are: Prince Edward, my own county of Brant, and the township of Pittsburg in Frontenac county; and Waterloo county will be out on August 1. The townships of Huntley, Fitzroy and Tor-bolton in Carleton county will be out on October 1. This is a serious situation. It is in tuberculosis alone. The w'ork of the past fifteen or twenty-five years will be put back a great many years if these counties are to be untested for just how long I am not sure. The infected animals will be left there to infect other animals, and this disease spreads quite rapidly. It spreads not only to cattle but also to other live stock, specifically hogs. Quite recently there have been several cases of hogs having to go to the tank because they were infected with T.B. But it is also transmissible to humans. That was mentioned by the hon. member for Lanark.
Bang's disease is probably just as serious as T.B., if not more so. Bang's disease is definitely transmissible to humans as the hon. member for Lanark said. So far the medical profession have found no cure for it. Neither have we a cure for Bang's disease in cattle. But as I mentioned in the house last fall, there is a good block or control for the disease in the form of brucella abortus vaccine, strain 19. Strain 19 is being used in Ontario to good advantage. A moment ago the minister made a statement that vaccine must not be used in adult animals. I ask him why that is so. I believe I proved to the house last fall that there were no ill effects from the vaccination of adult animals as found by the United States authorities with strain 19. It has been proven that even a cow that is near freshening can be vaccinated with strain 19. Probably she would abort, but that foetus can be exposed to any other animal in the herd, and, according to the United States report, those animals will not contract abortion. Therefore I ask the minister why-
The only reason I can give is that I must take my officials' advice
because I am not a veterinarian. My hon. friend is and he probably would disagree with them, but I must agree with my officials or- Mr. CHARLTON: I understand that perfectly. Probably some of the officials are still l^ack in the horse-and-buggy days. Surely we can take the results of the experiments in the United States as true. Surely we are not expected to carry on experiments of our own here and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to do the same work they have done. The minister said that there is very little we can do without more help. I made another suggestion last fall with regard to the vaccination of calves to be raised in listed herds. I still make that suggestion. It is very important. I may say that it would take probably only fifteen minutes of the veterinarian's time when he is there testing the herd to try to tell the owner how important it was that he have these calves to be raised vaccinated. It would just be a matter of time; it would not be any extra labour. I venture to say that he would spend fifteen minutes talking to the farmer anyway, and it would be time spent to good advantage in explaining the situation to him.
I also said last fall that the listed herd is probably the most vulnerable of any herd in the country. Personally I would prefer to have the average herd on the back concession than I would the listed herd in so far as Bang's disease is concerned, because there is neither acquired nor natural immunity iSn the listed herd, and the disease can spread rapidly in that herd, much more so than in the average herd on the back concession. I have made two suggestions: first, that all calves to be raised in listed herds could quite easily be vaccinated. The vaccine is free; it does not take very long to inject it, and, as the hon. member for Lanark said, in only one and a half per cent of the cases were they still positive after the second lactation. Even though an animal is positive it affects it only for export. As a matter of fact, you might be a great deal safer to have an all-positive herd than an all-negative herd, if it was negative from the fact that it had not received the vaccine and was not infected. Personally I believe there are two things that could be done. The departmental officials should make themselves more fully acquainted with the system or draw in men from the United States who do know. I would suggest that they either communicate with the inspectors in the field who are doing the work or bring them in to a central point and give them a short course, explain the situation to them. There is one difficulty which should be cleared up in the minds of those who are vaccinating cattle.
Vaccine is not a cure; it was never supposed to be a cure, and the very thing that is probably worrying most veterinarians to-day more than anything else is that in many of these herds that have been vaccinated since 1936 or 1937-I will not say "many," but a few-abortions are occurring.