April 16, 1946

LIB

William Ross Macdonald (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Shall section 4 carry?

Topic:   LOAN TO UNITED KINGDOM
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF FINANCIAL AGREEMENT SIGNED MARCH 6, 1946
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IND

Jean-François Pouliot

Independent Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

No. I want an answer to my questions. The minister answered only one of them. Besides that, I want the story of our transactions with Great Britain. I want to know what has been given foy Canada to Great Britain and what has been given in return by Great Britain to Canada, during the war.

If it is a question of business, then let us have the information. The minister has said that he took some notes while I was speaking.

I thank him for that. He has those notes, but he has answered partly only one of my questions, when I had asked many of them. They were serious questions. The leader of the C.C.F. party has acknowledged them, although he does not share my views. We are not going to railroad this piece of legislation through to-night; and if 'there is only one

member who will oppose it, I will. And I am not going to receive any lecture from anyone.

I listened to the hon. members who spoke to-day, and noted that they adopted a much better tone than some who spoke the other day. We are in a democracy, and yet all we hear is "carried," "carried," "carried". It is scandalous to think that an amount like this is passing, without any questions being answered by the Minister of Finance. As a member of parliament I have a right to expect answers from the minister-and complete answers.

The whole story he has told us is a story of lamentations. The parliament of Canada has become the wailing wall of the Department of Finance. Isaiah, Jeremiah-all the prophets, major and minor, were not so eloquent as the Minister of Finance. This afternoon I compared him with Joe Chamberlain, but to-night I compare him with Jeremiah and all those other major and minor prophets. I was surprised that tears were not flowing from his eyes. I thought he was dreaming, because he told us something that he could have said only in a dream-"I am not an imperialist". If the minister had been awake he would never have said anything like that. If he is not an imperialist, then the word "imperialist" does not exist.

I have been against Arthur Meighen from the beginning of my political career-since I was a little boy,, ftnd when the hon. member for Bellechasse was still at college. I was going with Ernest Lapointe and with all the other Liberals, denouncing the Tory party and denouncing the union government because they were imperialists. It was the success of the Liberal party. The Liberal party has pitted itself against Toryism, not only in the province of Quebec but in other provinces. Quebec was the pioneer and banner province of Canada. It was because the Liberal party was preaching the same doctrine east and west; it was because the Liberal party was denouncing imperialism that Mackenzie King came back to power in 1921 after defeating the Union government. That was due to the preaching of that same doctrine of liberalism and liberty, the same doctrine of patriotism that had been preached, by the Liberal party from coast to coast. The answer of the Canadian people was, "We believe in you; we are fed up with those who have two doctrines, who have one doctrine for the imperialists of the province of Ontario and another doctrine for the people who have followed another line of thought, in the province of Quebec; we are fed up with

Loan to United Kingdom ___

the duplicity, we want earnestness, we want sincerity and we want patriotism-we will try the Liberal party."

The Liberal party was elected on that very ground and on that particular policy. No one else would have thought that we would have such a policy as this enunciated by the Liberal party. If I denounce it to-day I do not denounce it as a French Canadian, I do not denounce it as a man who has been elected by a constituency in the province of Quebec. I denounce it as an old time Liberal; I denounce it as a supporter of Sir Wilfrid Laurier; I denounce it as a supporter and very close friend of the late Ernest Lapointe. Hon. members who were here when Mr. Lapointe was in this house will remember that.

Do you think a man who had made the campaigns I have made when the Liberal party was suffering defeat could stand for treatment like that? Some members may find it extraordinary that I speak with a little animation, but I am being careful about the words that I use at the present time. It is inconceivable. I ask the leader of the opposition, who was siding with the Liberal party at the time, if what I have said is not true. I will ask the Minister of Finance, who was not in politics at the time. The Minister of Veterans Affairs was probably not in Canada at that time in 1917. He was in the army; he has a fine record and I congratulate him upon it. Then there is the Minister of Agriculture who was in politics at the time. He must remember that. Then there is my old friend, the hon. member for RichelieuWercheres (Mr. Cardin) who was insulted the other day by a new member to this house.

Mr. BEAUDOIN; I do not think the hon. member who is speaking has a right to say that I insulted the hon. member for Richelieu-Vercheres just because I said to him a few things which I think he deserved to be told under the circumstances. I ask the hon. member to withdraw what he has said.

Topic:   LOAN TO UNITED KINGDOM
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF FINANCIAL AGREEMENT SIGNED MARCH 6, 1946
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IND

Jean-François Pouliot

Independent Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

If the hon. member for

Richelieu-Vercheres had not made the speeches that he made throughout the province the Liberal party would not have been strong enough to elect the hon. member for Vaud-reuil-Soulanges.

Topic:   LOAN TO UNITED KINGDOM
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF FINANCIAL AGREEMENT SIGNED MARCH 6, 1946
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IND

Pierre-Joseph-Arthur Cardin

Independent

Mr. CARDIN:

He would not be here.

Topic:   LOAN TO UNITED KINGDOM
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF FINANCIAL AGREEMENT SIGNED MARCH 6, 1946
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IND

Jean-François Pouliot

Independent Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

He would never have been here. The Liberal party would have fallen to pieces before.

Topic:   LOAN TO UNITED KINGDOM
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF FINANCIAL AGREEMENT SIGNED MARCH 6, 1946
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IND

Wilfrid Gariépy

Independent

Mr. GARIEPY:

What section are we on now?

Mr. DORION; Liberal section.

Topic:   LOAN TO UNITED KINGDOM
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF FINANCIAL AGREEMENT SIGNED MARCH 6, 1946
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LIB

William Ross Macdonald (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

We are on section 4.

Topic:   LOAN TO UNITED KINGDOM
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF FINANCIAL AGREEMENT SIGNED MARCH 6, 1946
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IND

Jean-François Pouliot

Independent Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

When I spoke at three

o'clock-

Topic:   LOAN TO UNITED KINGDOM
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF FINANCIAL AGREEMENT SIGNED MARCH 6, 1946
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LIB

William Ross Macdonald (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

I believe the hon. member for Three Rivers has raised a good point of order. I would refer the hon. member to standing order 58 which provides:

Speeches in committee of the whole house must be strictly relevant to the item or clause under consideration.

I would ask all hon. members to observe that rule.

Topic:   LOAN TO UNITED KINGDOM
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF FINANCIAL AGREEMENT SIGNED MARCH 6, 1946
Permalink
IND

Jean-François Pouliot

Independent Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

I agree perfectly with you. Is it section 4 or section 5?

Topic:   LOAN TO UNITED KINGDOM
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF FINANCIAL AGREEMENT SIGNED MARCH 6, 1946
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LIB

William Ross Macdonald (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Section 4.

Topic:   LOAN TO UNITED KINGDOM
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF FINANCIAL AGREEMENT SIGNED MARCH 6, 1946
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IND

Jean-François Pouliot

Independent Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

This reminds me of the man who had never been on a train before, who was making his first trip. He was surprised when the train stopped at a station because he thought the train had enough speed to go two stations further along. What is section 4? It reads:

Notwithstanding the provisions of section four of the War Appropriation (United Kingdom Financing) Act, 1942, no interest shall be payable in respect of any period prior to the first day of January, nineteen hundred and fifty-one. under any obligation of the government of the United Kingdom delivered to the government of Canada under that section.

When did this United Kingdom financing start? The minister told us the story on March 18, 1942, when he asked us to look at the record of the past. At that time he said:

Vrhen we are proposing to open a new chapter in our financial relations (with Great Britain and United States), the record regarding the past should be made quite clear.

That is the statement which was made by the Minister of Finance on March 18, 1942, when the house was considering for the first time the billion dollar gift-United Kingdom financing. The minister continued:

To the United Kingdom alone our shipments increased from $331 million in 1939 to $532 million in 1940 and $702 million in 1941. To the rest of the British empire, including Egypt, our shipments rose from $104 million in 1939 to $157 million in 1940 and $300 million in 1941. But notwithstanding some increase in our imports, the empire as a whole had an aggregate merchandise deficit with Canada of $445 million in 1940 and $723 million in 1941.

He did not mention the amount of our imports. I worked it out myself in pencil and I sent him the result of my work in order to verify my calculation.

Progress reported.

At eleven o'clock, the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.

The Earl of Athlone

Wednesday, April 17, 1946.

Topic:   LOAN TO UNITED KINGDOM
Subtopic:   APPROVAL OF FINANCIAL AGREEMENT SIGNED MARCH 6, 1946
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April 16, 1946