December 10, 1945

SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

When it comes to discussion of the Bretton Woods agreement I an& perfectly at home. I will turn to the speech which the minister himself gave, which surely is relevant to the question under discussion.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

My hon.

friend has made a reference to myself, and before he proceeds I should like to supplement that I have said by quoting from Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms, third edition, page 168, section 439:

The object of the resolution recommended by the crown is to give the house a first opportunity to discuss the advisability of making a certain expenditure. The details of the projected measure are not then disclosed and debate is confined to the resolution, which should not be lengthy, although care must be taken that the terms used are sufficiently wide to cover the whole of the bill which will be subsequently introduced.

It is perfectly clear that the rules of the house are that a resolution is simply to give members an opportunity to discuss the advisability of making certain expenditures, reserving for other stages fuller discussion. That is all I ask my hon. friends to do.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

I must be impressed by any reading of the rules of the house; yet I wish to read another rule. Before I do so, however, I would call the Prime Minister's attention to the fact that the item under discussion at. the present time is not money that is to be spent-not by any means. If it were an offer to spend five billions I would not object. It is not the spending of money; it is the risk of liberty-that is the point-and the risk of war. We are not discussing a money problem at all. If we were, the rule which the Prime Minister has read would apply. But since we are discussing what we are, may I read to the house standing order 58: [DOT]

The standing orders of the house shall be observed in the committees of the whole house so far as may be applicable, except the standing orders as to the seconding of motions and limiting the number of times of speaking.

If that rule does not indicate quite clearly that the committee of the whole, on a resolution, is for the purpose of allowing members to ask every kind of question they deem advisable, in order to get information of every kind which they desire to obtain from a minister, then I should like to know why the rule is there. I think that is an answer to the Prime Minister.

Let me now turn to the speech which was made by the minister when discussing Bretton Woods. I would quote from page 3040 of Hansard, and I will ask the minister for explanations of certain terms which he uses.

I presume that the speech which the minister gave in the house was designed to convince the house of the expediency of the measure. It is important to know what he meant by the terms he used when he said:

This conference was held after a couple of years of intensive discussion among the treasury officials of a large number of united nations.

May I ask the minister who originated the Bretton Woods agreement. Was it originated in Canada, and, if so, by whom? In the United States, and, if so, by whom? Or in Great Britain, and, if so, by whom, and at whose instigation, so far as is known?

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

It originated as set out in the papers that were tabled in this house, the document entitled, "International stabilization of currencies", which was printed and tabled in this house, I believe in 1943. There were two or three papers prepared. The document contains the text of a paper setting out proposals by British experts for an international clearing union, and the text of the statement on international stabilization of currencies presented to the United States senate committee on April 5, 1943, as well as the text and draft outline of a proposal by United States experts for united and associated nations stabilization fund. Then the Canadian experts produced, about that time or shortly afterwards, a document entitled "Tentative draft proposals of Canadian experts for an international exchange union".

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

That is very good, but what I wish to know is which one of the nations originated this thing. Did Canadh? Did the United States? Did Great Britain? Or did the thing spring up like an epidemic?

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

The British and Americans were both working on the proposals about the same time and they came out about the same time.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

Which one came first?

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

They were within a day or two of each other.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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SC

Victor Quelch

Social Credit

Mr. QUELCH:

When I spoke the other day I asked the minister to give me the terms of reference under which the Canadian experts first of all drew up their plans.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

There were no formal terms of reference.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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SC

Victor Quelch

Social Credit

Mr. QUELCH:

Surely the minister does not mean to say that he called a number of men

Bretton Woods Agreements

together and told them to draft plans for some sort of monetary stabilization fund. Were they advised to draw up a plan on the basis of gold, or were they advised to draw up a multilateral plan on the basis of national currencies or on the basis of an index of . prices? There must have been some instructions.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

The United States plan and British plan came out and there was a wide divergence between them. We thought we could render some service in devising plans which would not be the same as either but would give to some extent the views of our experts. They were instructed to go to work on it and see what they could produce.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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SC

Norman Jaques

Social Credit

Mr. JAQUES:

What was the date of it?

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

The 9th day of June, 1943; that is the Canadian plan.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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SC

Norman Jaques

Social Credit

Mr. JAQUES:

I should like to remind the minister that in April, 1943, Mr. Morgenthau published his plan.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

That is right.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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SC

Norman Jaques

Social Credit

Mr. JAQUES:

I brought the matter to the attention of this house, and I was blackguarded from one end of Canada to the other by the press. So that this idea goes back a little longer than the minister is saying.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

No. I stated that the British plan and the United States plan came out before the Canadian plan was prepared. I stated that the Canadian plan was published in June, 1943, and the others were somewhat before that. As a matter of fact, the United States plan was published in April, 1943. I do not know when my hon. friend was blackguarded or what for.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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SC

Norman Jaques

Social Credit

Mr. JAQUES:

The plan to surrender the sovereignty of Canada was certainly started by April 1, 1943, if not before, because Mr. Sandwell addressed a meeting of the league of nations society and said that the loyalty of the Canadian people would have to be weaned away from the crown to an international authority, and a few days later Mr. Morgenthau published his plan in Washington which called for an international bank that would be above parliament and above congress. I brought that to the attention of this house and was roundly abused for so doing.

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
Permalink
SC

Victor Quelch

Social Credit

Mr. QUELCH:

Will the minister say

whether Canada to-day is definitely committed to this Bretton Woods agreement?

Topic:   INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
Subtopic:   INTERNATIONAL
Sub-subtopic:   BANK FOR RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
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December 10, 1945