December 1, 1945

LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

If facts are discordant, I am sorry. Perhaps the facts are not pleasant to some. The record however should be kept straight, and facts are facts.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OP FISHERIES
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PC
LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

I am doing just the same as the other members, and yet you are finding fault with me because I uphold my province. If you are going to find fault with me because I uphold British Columbia, call it a discordant note. I read in the paper that hundreds of thousands of dollars have been given to the fishermen in the maritimes, while British Columbia has got not one red cent.

If you wanted a discordant note I could easily raise it. But I do not want to do so.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OP FISHERIES
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CCF

Robert Ross (Roy) Knight

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. KNIGHT:

I do not know whether it is the eating of so much fish that promotes local patriotism, but hon. gentlemen from the east and from the west have told us about the virtues of the waters in their respective parts of the country. I come from the centre of Saskatchewan where we are currently supposed not to have any fishing industry. But that is not quite correct. In the northern part of our province there are lakes that are well stocked with white fish, pickerel and lake trout, but unfortunately, except for a few persons who like to spend a little time fishing with rod and line up there, that fishing has not had an^ particular significance. Quoting from the public accounts, part II, I find that in 1944 the dominion government spent the magnificent total of $13.08 on general account in connection with the fisheries of Saskatchewan. In the previous year, I may say, the government, by order in council P.C. 4812, passed in June of that year, authorized the establishment of a committee to make inquiries concerning the difficulties attending the production, processing and marketing of fish in the prairie provinces, and to make recommendations for the improvement of the situation as it then existed. I trust that when I, have finished with this short address the minister will tell us what has happened as a result of that investigation. I should like to know what has come of it. What has the dominion government done?

I am particularly interested in any industry from the point of view of the degree to which that industry brings prosperity and happiness to the lives of the people who are engaged in it. A new impetus has been given the fishing industry in northern Saskatchewan. The old method of laissez-faire has not worked satisfactorily. We know that if there is too much laissez-faire with fish, particularly when the weather is warm, the results will not be desirable. At any rate, the old method of laissez-faire was not conducive to a good living on the part of Indians and other people engaged in that trade.

Transportation in that part of the country, as hon. members know, is tremendously difficult because there is no way of getting into it except by sled. They go by tractor train in the winter time, but transportation at all times is exceedingly difficult. The method of fishing followed is for the men to go in during the winter and throw the, fish in heaps at the edge of the lake, exposed to the open weather,

Supply-Fisheries

including sun-because there is an occasional thaw even in that part of the country-and [DOT]then the product is taken out if and when a tractor train comes along.

These were the conditions up to a short time ago, and needless to say the financial returns were not great, because these people sold their product in the first stage of production. There was no processing in the primary stage and, as I have said, they could carry on only at one time of the year.

_ The picture of these people's lives-and that is the aspect of it in which I am interested-[DOT] has changed. The Saskatchewan government has seen to that. It is building three modem filleting plants from lumber cut in their own woods and processed in local mills, with the result that a year-round industry is being established. That is the point L wish particularly to emphasize.. These people are being provided with proper facilities, ice storage and so on, and that will bring' at least a better standard of living to them. It will make for their happiness, and that is what I am concerned with. They can now cease to live the gypsy life which has been their habit in the past. They can settle down and bring up their children in schools that are being built with their own lumber. Several schools have been built and others are in process of construction. These children can now go to school, where before they had never seen the inside of a schoolhouse, even a log school-house.

One of my colleagues has just handed me the figures giving the value of commercial fishing in Saskatchewan for a period of years, and before I must conclude, due to the fact that it is almost one o'clock, I should like to draw these figures to the attention of the committee. I presume the minister is acquainted with them. In 1937 the value of the industry was $527,000 in round figures; in 1939, $478,000; in 1941, $414,000; and in 1942, $585,000-this out of a dominion total, in 1942, of $75,000,000.

This industry, so far as Saskatchewan is concerned, might be called an infant industry, but it is growing up, and that is more than I can say for some "infant industries" in this country. The little change that.I have mentioned has brought about an improvement in the lives of these poor people in the form of financial results, and it has been a revolution in the life of that northern part of the province. I commend it to the attentiqn of the dominion ministry.

Progress reported.

At one o'clock the house took recess.

The house resumed at three o'clock.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OP FISHERIES
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WAYS AND MEANS

EXCESS PROFITS TAX ACT, 1940


The house in committee of ways and means, Mr. Golding in the chair. 6. That the exemption of the profits of corporations derived from the operation of any base metal or strategic mineral mines be extended to the profits of corporations derived from the operation * of gold mines and industrial mineral mines, and that such exemption be extended to the profits of such mines which come into production after January 1, 1946.


PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. GREEN:

When the committee rose last evening we were discussing the question of goldi mines. Would the minister tell the committee for what period of years this provision is to apply? Is it for a three-year period or only for a one-year period?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   EXCESS PROFITS TAX ACT, 1940
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Hon. J. L. ILSLEY (Minister of Finance):

It applies for the period of the excess profits tax. It may be extended, of course, but this resolution does not provide for any particular period.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   EXCESS PROFITS TAX ACT, 1940
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. GREEN:

It does not apply for a period of three years?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   EXCESS PROFITS TAX ACT, 1940
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

No.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   EXCESS PROFITS TAX ACT, 1940
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. GREEN:

Am I to understand that it will be in effect as long as there is an excess profits tax act?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   EXCESS PROFITS TAX ACT, 1940
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Yesy unless it is taken away by some subsequent parliament; but this is what it provides, and there will be no excess profits tax from January 1 on in connection with these new mines.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   EXCESS PROFITS TAX ACT, 1940
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. GREEN:

And is a tuning-up period to be allowed? There was some discussion about that last evening, but the minister made no statement as to whether or not provision would be made for a tuning-up period.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   EXCESS PROFITS TAX ACT, 1940
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

There will be, in proper cases. I am saying that without much technical knowledge, but when a similar provision was in force previously a tuning-up period was allowed. Of course at that time it applied first to gold mines and later to base metal mines, and tuning-up periods were allowed. AYhen you move into industrial minerals you may not need any tuning-up period; the nature of the operation may be such that it would, not be required. The purpose of a 'tuning-up period is to determine when the mine actually comes into production, and it will be for the Department of National Revenue to determine when that takes place.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   EXCESS PROFITS TAX ACT, 1940
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. GREEN:

Does not the minister think gold mines and base metal mines should be dealt with in a different way from the production of industrial material?

Excess Profits Tax

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   EXCESS PROFITS TAX ACT, 1940
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Not as far as exemption from tax is concerned.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   EXCESS PROFITS TAX ACT, 1940
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. GREEN:

But I mean in working out the details of the application of the tax.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   EXCESS PROFITS TAX ACT, 1940
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Yes, I should think so; that is, I should think you would have such a range of minerals covered by this exemption now that conditions would vary tremendously as to the time required to get the mine into production.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   EXCESS PROFITS TAX ACT, 1940
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. GREEN:

That will be kept in mind in working out the application of the new provision?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   EXCESS PROFITS TAX ACT, 1940
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December 1, 1945