November 28, 1945

LIB

Gordon Benjamin Isnor

Liberal

Mr. ISNOR:

I was paired with he hon. member for Colchester-Hants (Mr. Stanfield). Had I voted I would have voted against the amendment.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
IND

Wilfrid Gariépy

Independent

Mr. GARIEPY:

I was paired with the hon. member for Vietoria-Carleton (Mr. Hatfield). Had I voted I would have voted against the amendment.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
IND

Jean-François Pouliot

Independent Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

I was paired with the hon. member for Edmonton East (Mr. Ashby). Had I not been paired I would have voted against the amendment.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

John Watson MacNaught

Liberal

Mr. MacNAUGHT:

I was paired with the hon. member for Elgin (Mr. Coyle). Had I voted, I would have voted against the amendment. ,

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Patrick Healy

Liberal

Mr. HEALY:

I was paired with the hon. member for Brant (Mr. Charlton). Had I voted, I would have voted against the amendment.

Income War Tax

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PC

Arthur Leroy Smith

Progressive Conservative

Mr. SMITH (Calgary West):

I was paired with the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. MacKinnon). Had I voted, I would have voted for the amendment.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PC

James Arthur Ross

Progressive Conservative

Mr. ROSS (Souris):

I was paired with the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner). Had I voted, I would have voted for the amendment.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PC

Herbert Alexander Bruce

Progressive Conservative

Mr. BRUCE:

I was paired with the hon. member for York-Sunbury (Mr. Bridges). Had I voted, I would have voted for the amendment.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PC

Kenneth Roy Daniel

Progressive Conservative

Mr. DANIEL:

I was paired with the hon. member for Parry Sound (Mr. McDonald). Had I voted, I would have voted for the amendment.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PC

George Henry Stokes

Progressive Conservative

Mr. STOKES:

I was paired with the hon. member for Chambly-Rctuville (Mr. Pinard). Had I voted, I would have voted for the amendment. ,

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PC

Edmund Davie Fulton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. FULTON:

I was paired with the hon. member for Montmagny-L'Islet (Mr. Lesage). Had I voted, I wTould have voted for the amendment.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PC

Percy Chapman Black

Progressive Conservative

Mr. BLACK (Cumberland):

I was paired with the junior hon. member for Halifax (.Mr. Macdonald). Had I voted, I would have voted for the amendment.

Main motion (Mr. Ilsley) agreed to on division.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink

WAYS AND MEANS


The house in committee of ways and means, Mr. Macdonald (Brantford City) in the chair.


INCOME WAR TAX ACT


Resolved that it is expedient to amend the Income War Tax Act, and to provide 1. That for 1945 and subsequent taxation years the capital element in contractual annuities be exempt from tax.


PC

Harry Rutherford Jackman

Progressive Conservative

Mr. JACKMAN:

May I congratulate the minister and the government on the fact that at last they have seen the wisdom and the equity of separating the capital element from the income element in annuity payments. I should like also to tender my thanks to the commission that sat on taxation of annuities and family corporations. Mr. William C. Ives, retired Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Alberta; Doctor D. A. MacGibbon of Winnipeg, and Mr. M. W. Mackenzie, formerly of Montreal and now Deputy Minister of Trade and Commerce, constituted that commission, and I believe they did an excellent job on the question of annuities and family corporations.

The situation is one that should have been taken up years ago. The injustice under it cried for relief for many years, but the minister and the Department of National Revenue felt that they were so burdened with work that they could not find a satisfactory solution and at last they arrived at the happy thought of appointing a royal commission on *the subject. AH I have to say is that a royal commission could as easily have been appointed many years previously and much less injustice would have been done many of our citizens.

Under the same caption comes resolution 2 which I will not discuss just now, but will the minister clarify the situation in regard to government annuities? At the present time government annuities taken out before a certain date are free from income tax on both capital and the income element.

Some years ago the government prevented holders of contracts that called for less than the maximum amount of $1,200 a year from increasing the amount to $1,200, which was their understanding of their right prior to that time. I believe that now, if the holder of a contract that calls for SI,200 at some future date wishes, not to enlarge his contract- because he already has a maximum-but to mature the contract at an earlier date, and he was given the understanding by the government agent-'Whether of the 'Department of Labour or of the Department of Finance is not of great concern-he could mature the contract at an earlier date and have it tax free. I see nothing in the report of the Ives commission or in the bare bones of the resolution which would throw any light on that matter and I would ask the minister to clarify it if he can.

Topic:   INCOME WAR TAX ACT
Permalink
LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Hon. J. L. ILSLEY (Minister of Finance):

That is a technical question for me to answer without a little notice. I shall just have, to read the question and try to answer it later.

I do not know that I need to say anything more about it now. I think that it is the best way to deal with it.

Topic:   INCOME WAR TAX ACT
Permalink
PC

Harry Rutherford Jackman

Progressive Conservative

Mr. JACKMAN:

All I can say is that the Department of National Revenue in its arbitrary manner, which perhaps it cannot help unless it gets greater clarification of the law which this house passes, rules one way at one time, and subsequently on the' same set of circumstances rules another way. Nobody knows where he stands on this matter, and before the budget resolutions are through I hope that the minister, with the assistance of his experts and his colleague, will be able to give a ruling to the people who are interested in this matter.

Income War Tax

Topic:   INCOME WAR TAX ACT
Permalink
LIB

William Ross Macdonald (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Shall resolution 1

carry?

Topic:   INCOME WAR TAX ACT
Permalink

November 28, 1945