November 12, 1945

LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

My colleague, the Minister of Justice, points out that section 125 of the British North America Act reads:

No lands or property belonging to Canada or any province shall be liable to taxation.

Therefore it would be unconstitutional to make the corporation liable for this taxation. The best that can'be done is to give them the power to pay an amount equivalent to the taxation that would be levied on the corporation if it were not an agent of His Majesty.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. FLEMING:

I will not press the amendment. On the constitutional aspect I see no difference between the permissive and mandatory terms.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
Permalink
LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

The one purports to make

the crown liable, which the British North America Act says it cannot be. The British North America Act says it shall not be liable, but this section empowers the corporation to make a payment.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
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PC

Agar Rodney Adamson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. ADAMSON:

Paragraph (f), which I

mentioned the other night, reads as follows:

(f) exercise or perform any other powers, duties or functions conferred on or required to be performed by the corporation under any other act or order in council.

I suggest that after the words "order in council" there be added the words "respecting housing." It seems to me that the present wording of this paragraph gives practically blanket powers to the corporation with regard to financing, buying and selling of properties or any other function.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

It would have to be "any

other act respecting housing or any order in council respecting housing."

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
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PC

Agar Rodney Adamson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. ADAMSON:

"Any other act or order in council respecting housing."

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Does the hon. gentleman intend that those words shall qualify-

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
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PC

Agar Rodney Adamson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. ADAMSON:

I think they should be

added after the words "order in council" and before the word "and."

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Is it, the hon. gentleman's

intention that the words shall qualify "order in council" alone or "order in council" and "act"?

Housing Act

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
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PC

Agar Rodney Adamson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. ADAMSON:

I think they both should be qualified, yes.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

I do not know what acts

there are or what orders in council there may be respecting housing.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
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PC

Agar Rodney Adamson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. ADAMSON:

An order in council could be passed.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
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LIB

George Alexander Cruickshank

Liberal

Mr. CRUICKSHANK:

I do not want to

repeat, but unfortunately the Minister of Finance and the hon. member for York West have been having a little private conversation. We would like to hear what is going on. I just . had a wire from my district-

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
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PC

Harry Rutherford Jackman

Progressive Conservative

Mr. JACKMAN:

Move over to our side.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
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LIB

George Alexander Cruickshank

Liberal

Mr. CRUICKSHANK:

If I am ever on

that side it will be a sorry day for Canada, but it will be a sorrier day for Canada if you people are ever on this side. I want to ask the Minister of Finance, when he is through with his little conversation with the hon. member over there, about two naval stations, an airport and an army camp in my riding. I see no reason why the farmers in my district, including myself, should have to pay taxes to build a road for the benefit of the dominion government, because, as I understand from the minister's private conversation, that is what it means. I wish to know if the minister is saying that the federal government, because of some ruling made in 1876 or some other time, is not going to pay taxes when facilities are provided by the municipality?

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
Permalink
LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

The crown is not .liable for taxes according to the provisions of the British North America Act. I read the section a few minutes ago but perhaps the hon. gentleman did not hear it.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
Permalink
LIB

George Alexander Cruickshank

Liberal

Mr. CRUICKSHANK:

The Acting Prime Minister is quite correct; I did not hear it because he was talking privately to some one over there. I wish to know if this government is in favour of a municipality providing facilities for the dominion government and not being able to collect taxation.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
Permalink
LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

There is a great deal to be said on both sides of that controversy, and it has all been said many times during the last three or four years, I can assure my hon. friend. Our experience during the war was that we had delegations repeatedly demanding airports or other dominion government developments in their respective municipalities. Great pressure was put on to get them, and at that time the municipalities apparently were not the least bit worried over the fact that they would not be getting any taxation on those properties. But after a while other delegations came to Ottawa wanting the

.

dominion government to pay taxes which we were not liable to pay under the British North America Act. .

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
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LIB

George Alexander Cruickshank

Liberal

Mr. CRUICKSHANK:

Not from my riding.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Generally the citizens are sufficiently compensated for the fact that they have to pay some taxes to provide facilities for properties upon which the dominion government does not pay taxes. There may be( some exaggerated or extreme cases in various parts of Canada, and apparently my hon. friend has one in mind. However, I think we may be getting a little far afield from the bill before the committee.

Topic:   NATIONAL HOUSING ACT
Subtopic:   CENTRAL MORTGAGE AND HOUSING CORPORATIONDISCOUNTING FACILITIES
Permalink

November 12, 1945