November 8, 1945

SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. HANSELL:

You will hear a little more of it.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
LPP

Fred Rose

Labour Progressive

Mr. ROSE:

We have heard too much of it. The flag is the symbol of all the people, Christian and non-Christian. The world cannot be divided into Christians and non-Christians. We are not declaring war against Mohammedans or Moslems and others. We have to live in peace with them, and this idea that there is a Christian flag or a nonChristian flag is something that we have heard from many who to-day are dead but

the germs of whose ideas are still being disseminated. Le roi est mort, vive le roi I Goebbels is dead, but his ideology seeps even into this House of Commons.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
SC

Norman Jaques

Social Credit

Mr. JAQUES:

Mr. Speaker, I think that remark is out of order.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
LPP

Fred Rose

Labour Progressive

Mr. ROSE:

So was the remark about the Christian flag. The swastika was also a flag and it represented a system of barbarism and persecution. We want a flag that will represent a free people and a prosperous people in a country in which everyone has an opportunity.

Mr. JOHN R. MacNICOL (Davenport): I am not going to speak at any length on this occasion; I will reserve my arguments for the committee, because I will certainly go before any committee that has to deal with the question of a flag for Canada and present the strongest arguments I can to show that any flag this country has must have the union jack in the upper left-hand corner next the staff. I felt encouraged after listening to what the hon. member for Vancouver South (Mr. Green) read as having been said by the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King) recently-I have forgotten where-in which statement he declared that he could not conceive of a Canadian flag without having the union jack prominently thereon. I am very glad to hear that because, if the Prime Minister holds that view, he will have, apart from a few, the unanimous support of the house.

When this question came up here in 1938, nearly eight years ago,- that was not the Prime Minister's stand; he took a strong stand in the opposite direction on that occasion. I will read what he said shortly after I had made an address. At page 438 of Hansard of February 14, 1938, the Prime Minister said:

I would conclude this part of what I have to say with the observation that the continued use of the union jack gives a false impression abroad, and particularly in the country immediately adjoining. The use of the union jack on anything that is distinctively Canadian in the United States does not help to emphasize the individuality of this country or its distinct nationality; it helps to submerge them altogether.

Having in mind what the Prime Minister said on that occasion, and not having heard what the Prime Minister said recently, I was happy to hear the quotation read; and as I said a few moments ago, I feel encouraged that when the proposed flag comes back from the committee which is to be set up it will have the union jack on it.

We thought this afternoon that the amendment suggested by the hon. member for Nanaimo (Mr. Pearkes), which called for the

Canadian Flag

flag now flying on the flag staff of the peace tower, would receive genera! support. I for one felt that I was going a long way to accept that change from what we have had. I have always been, and still am, a strong advocate of the union jack. I know that even if we do have some other official flag, we shall still have the right, as they have in South Africa, to fly the union jack. We shall still have the right to fly it because it is an empire flag. We can then fly any other flag that is chosen by the committee with the union jack thereon.

If the committee brought back a flag that did not contain the union jack-and I warn my hon. friends over there who seem to be very strong against the union jack being on the flag; I am not finding fault with their views; they have a right to their opinion as I have to mine-I shall go to the limit to fight before any committee to see that the union jack shall be on any Canadian flag.

I represent a riding, than which there is no riding in Canada which has sent more soldiers overseas in this war or in the last war. There may have been other ridings which have sent as many, but none sent more. I doubt whether any riding in Canada has lost as many of its brilliant young sons, many of whom I knew, as my riding. Almost every house on my street, which consists of the finest people in the land-there are just as good elsewhere, but none better-has lost a son, boys whom I knew myself. No riding has made a greater sacrifice and I will fight for them. They would not stand for a flag without the union jack being on it. What are you to have on the flag? I am not going to take the line I took on forjner occasions. We are told we are to have a distinctive flag. What is your distinction to be? What are you to have on the flag? I have here about fifty-seven varieties, like Heinz pickles, and every one of them different. They have that right. Everyone who has put in a design wants to make a flag. As I said, I have fifty-seven varieties, and I call them Heinz pickles flags. Few of them stand for anything. Few of them really represent anything. Flags come from a long, long history and on them there should be something representing the people of the country.

I heard here to-night that there should not be any crosses on the flag Well, there will be some crosses on the flag, Mr. Speaker. I have in my veins Scotch and Irish blood; I will not stand for the Cross of St. Andrew or the Cross of St. Patrick being taken off the flag, and I am sure that the people who have English blood in their veins in this house will not stand for St. George's Cross

being taken off the flag. I believe a combination of these three crosses, which appear on the present union jack, should appear on a Canadian flag.

I cannot understand my hon. friends across the way. If we people who have Scotch, English, Welsh and Irish blood in our veins were wanting to do away with the union jack I would not be surprised at their objection, because all these crosses came from France. William the Conqueror brought one of them with him. St. George's Cross also came from across the channel. The French kings brought the other crosses with them; and the coat-of-arms that was made so much fun of this afternoon by my good friend the hon. member for Temiscouata (Mr. Pouliot), for whom I have a high regard and a very warm feeling, also came from France. I must say he has a perfect right to make fun if he desires and he is perfect at doing that; he did well, but I must tell him that those lions were brought to England by the French kings, too.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
IND

Jean-François Pouliot

Independent Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

It is the flag of Great Britain.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
PC

John Ritchie MacNicol

Progressive Conservative

Mr. MacNICOL:

If we people who have English, Scotch or Irish blood in our veins were kicking against the crosses or the lions there would be some excuse for their taking the opposite stand. But there is no excuse for anyone with French blood in their veins kicking against them because they came from France.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
IND

Jean-François Pouliot

Independent Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

May I ask the hon. member one question?

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
PC

John Ritchie MacNicol

Progressive Conservative

Mr. MacNICOL:

As the house knows, they were imposed on the Anglo-Saxons after the French kings came, of whom we had quite a number. There was William I and William II, Henry, Stephen, Richard I and Richard II, and so on. They were all French kings, and their wives nearly all French women. It was four or five hundred years before the kings began to speak English in England. These French kings were good kings and their wives were very good women. They brought these French crosses and the French lions with them. We are not kicking about that. We are glad that they came to England; we are glad that they improved our English language. Half our language consists of French words, but we are not kicking about that. If it had not been for those French words I do not know what kind of language we would have to-day. We ire grateful to the French.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

St. Andrew's Cross did not come from France.

Canadian Flag

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
PC

John Ritchie MacNicol

Progressive Conservative

Mr. MacNICOL:

I cannot understand why my hon. friends over there are so violently opposed to anything British appearing on the Canadian flag.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
IND

Jean-François Pouliot

Independent Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

Mr. Speaker, I rise to a question of privilege.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
PC

John Ritchie MacNicol

Progressive Conservative

Mr. MacNICOL:

You can do that.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
IND

Jean-François Pouliot

Independent Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

I have the greatest regard for the hon. member for Davenport.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
PC

John Ritchie MacNicol

Progressive Conservative

Mr. MacNICOL:

What is the question of privilege? [DOT]

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
IND

Jean-François Pouliot

Independent Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

I cannot let him proceed farther and insinuate that I am opposed to the British flag.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
PC

John Ritchie MacNicol

Progressive Conservative

Mr. MacNICOL:

I did not say that.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
IND

Jean-François Pouliot

Independent Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

I do not want him to say that, and I do not want-

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
LIB

William Ross Macdonald (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER:

Order.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
IND

Jean-François Pouliot

Independent Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

I have the floor on a question of privilege.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink
PC

John Ritchie MacNicol

Progressive Conservative

Mr. MacNICOL:

The hon. member is stating something that' I did not say.

Topic:   CANADIAN FLAG
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE TO CONSIDEB AND REPORT ON SUITABLE DESIGN
Permalink

November 8, 1945