July 25, 1944

LIB

Hughes Cleaver

Liberal

Mr. CLEAVER:

And the most effective.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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NAT

Herbert Alexander Bruce

National Government

Mr. BRUCE:

-but in a certain number of cases there is fear that the money will not reach the children. *

Although I have suggested the alternative of greatly improved social services, no doubt in certain cases these will have to be supplemented by a cash grant, but I am opposed to giving out these grants indiscriminately. I would make exception in the case of those members of our armed forces who have offered their lives overseas in defence of our country. The least we can do for them is to make these bonuses immediately available for their dependents.

The most socially-developed countries of Europe, namely Sweden. Norway, Denmark and the Netherlands, have not accepted the principle of family allowances.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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LIB

Hughes Cleaver

Liberal

Mr. CLEAVER:

Will the hon. member

permit a question?

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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NAT

Herbert Alexander Bruce

National Government

Mr. BRUCE:

After I am through. 1 would prefer to finish my remarks now.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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LIB

Hughes Cleaver

Liberal

Mr. CLEAVER:

The hon. member overlooks the fact that the Scandinavian countries-

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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NAT

Karl Kenneth Homuth

National Government

Mr. HOMUTH:

Are you a Scandinavian?

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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LIB

Hughes Cleaver

Liberal

Mr. CLEAVER:

-are overpopulated.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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LIB

Thomas Vien (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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NAT

Herbert Alexander Bruce

National Government

Mr. BRUCE:

The hon. member who has just interrupted will have his opportunity to speak when I have finished. Neither have these countries to which I have referred been involved in the war., and therefore they will not have the large war debts that we shall experience in this country.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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LIB

Hughes Cleaver

Liberal

Mr. CLEAVER:

But they are overpopulated.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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NAT

Herbert Alexander Bruce

National Government

Mr. BRUCE:

The British government is not entirely in favour of this proposition but would rather meet the problem through welfare services.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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LIB

Thomas Vien (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order. I must insist that hon. gentlemen on both sides refrain from interrupting the hon. member and allow him tc finish his speech.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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NAT

Herbert Alexander Bruce

National Government

Mr. BRUCE:

However, owing to the great suffering imposed on them by bombing and the impossibility of developing social services as they would like and expect to do later on, there is great urgency and the government may accept the scheme as a temporary measure. but with several strong reservations. We are by no means in the same position as England which, if it bring it in, will do so because of immediate need. It is not a question of need in this country now when people have more money than ever before, whatever may be the case in the post-war period.

The countries to which I have referred, after thorough investigation, rejected the cash bonus, principle. They practise instead aid on the basis of need. This government's plan is basically wrong because it disregards need. The cash subsidy is given automatically without regard to family conditions and with no guarantee that the children will benefit. The moral, physical, cultural and general welfare of the children is left absolutely to chance. Some labour unions have expressed themselves as opposed to family allowances because this may be made an excuse for keeping wages down to the minimum. On the other hand, it is stated that no industry can afford to pay wages which will enable the average working man to raise a large family. But I would ask, why should the average working man be expected to raise a large family? I know this is encouraged, and, indeed, may be necessary where man-power has been seriously depleted because of war or epidemic or where we are engaged in building up an army for national defence. I am afraid

Family Allowances

that if these cash payments are to be made on this basis they will not fulfil their objective, for the money will not go to the provinces which did most of the fighting and suffered most of. the casualties.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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LIB

Hughes Cleaver

Liberal

Mr. CLEAVER:

I rise to a point of order.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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NAT

Herbert Alexander Bruce

National Government

Mr. BRUCE:

If we are to encourage large families, I think-

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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LIB

Thomas Vien (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order. There is a point of order before the Chair.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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LIB

Hughes Cleaver

Liberal

Mr. CLEAVER:

I would like to ask Your Honour whether there is a rule in this house against the reading of essays.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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NAT

Karl Kenneth Homuth

National Government

Mr. HOMUTH:

All right. From now on you will get it.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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NAT

James Arthur Ross

National Government

Mr. ROSS (Souris):

It all depends upon who is doing the reading.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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NAT

Karl Kenneth Homuth

National Government

Mr. HOMUTH:

You want to be smart. Well, you will get it from now on about

reading speeches.

Topic:   FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR PAYMENTS IN RESPECT OF CHILDREN UNDER SIXTEEN
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July 25, 1944