July 24, 1944

NAT

Ernest Edward Perley

National Government

Mr. PERLEY:

But since the meeting of that committee order in council P.C. 7942 has been passed. I was going to ask whether, after the conclusion of this estimate for the Canada Grain Act, the minister would make a statement or allow one or two questions with regard to the other matter.

Mr. MacKINNON CKdmonton West): I do not know whether I shall make a statement, but I shall be glad to see that the hon. member has an opportunity to ask any questions.

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NAT
NAT

James Arthur Ross

National Government

Mr. ROSS (Souris):

I understand that the grain commission is responsible for the setting of handling charges-elevator charges for storage and general handling charges-and I would ask the minister whether under the act it is necessary that the commissioners receive an application before they can alter the charges or whether they do it on their ojvn, without having received an application to that effect.

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LIB

James Angus MacKinnon (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. MacKINNON (Edmonton West):

They can do it on their own initiative.

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Item agreed to. Canada Grain Act- S55. Operation and maintenance, including inspecting, weighing, registration, etc., $1,596,736.


NAT

Ernest Edward Perley

National Government

Mr. PERLEY:

On page 191 of the estimates giving the details it is seen that there has been a considerable increase in the number of samplers, some thirty-three, and the figure is $45,000. Will the minister explain that increase in the number of samplers? They have almost doubled.

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LIB

James Angus MacKinnon (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. MacKINNON (Edmonton West):

It is due to the greater movement of grain and many of these samplers are temporary, handling the increased movement.

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NAT

Ernest Edward Perley

National Government

Mr. PERLEY:

Why do you say: "greater movement of grain?" From time to time the same number of bushels of grain are being marketed, or comparatively the same number. There may be a difference in some years. Why do you need almost double the staff this year as compared with last year?

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LIB

James Angus MacKinnon (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. MacKINNON (Edmonton West):

lam advised there was a considerably larger movement last year than there was the year before.

Supply-Trade and Commerce

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CCF

Percy Ellis Wright

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. WRIGHT:

I believe that the two railway companies have asked that cars loaded with grain be loaded to capacity. As a result there is a large number of cars going through the Winnipeg yards out of which the grain samplers are not able to obtain a true sample, and the inspection is made at the head of the lakes. Has the minister the number of cars in which this has taken place, where they were not able to make the inspection at Winnipeg and it had to be made at the head of the lakes; also the number of cars in which a reinspection was called because of the unsatisfactory inspection at Winnipeg and the number of cars in which the grade was changed at the head of the lakes because of the calling for this reinspection?

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LIB

James Angus MacKinnon (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. MacKINNON (Edmonton West):

I am informed that in all cases a sample is taken at Winnipeg; but in many cases the car is of necessity loaded so full that a proper sample cannot always be taken. Each car is again sampled at the head of the lakes and the two samples compared. I am informed that rarely is there very much difference in the samples.

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CCF

Percy Ellis Wright

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. WRIGHT:

If there are a number of cases where a reinspection has been called for and a change in the grade has been made at the head of the lakes, that information should be available.

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LIB

James Angus MacKinnon (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. MacKINNON (Edmonton West):

In the crop year 1941-42 there was a reinspection made of 585 cars; in the crop year 1942-43 there was a reinspection of 577 cars. In the crop year 1941-42 the grade was raised on ninety-one cars; in the crop year 1942-43 the grade was raised on seventy-seven cars. In the crop year 1941-42 the grade was lowered on two cars, and in the crop year 1942-43 the grade was lowered on one car.

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CCF

Joseph William Burton

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. BURTON:

To-day are not all terminals equipped with automatic samplers?

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LIB
CCF

Joseph William Burton

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. BURTON:

Has it not been proven that that is a more satisfactory way of getting a correct grade than the probing system? I have been given to understand that the automatic sampler installed in the terminals has proven satisfactory. If that is the case why continue the two systems of taking the samples?

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LIB

James Angus MacKinnon (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. MacKINNON (Edmonton West):

The question the hon>. member has just asked has been anticipated, and I may say that the shipper wishes to have information with respect to grade as soon as possible. That is why a sample is taken at Winnipeg. This enables him better to dispose of his grain and also to

100-334i

protect himself with regard to grade. Many cars are too full to sample at Winnipeg and must be sampled at the unloading point.

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Item agreed to. Canada Grain Act-* 356. Canadian government elevators, including equipment, $364,557.


NAT

Ernest Edward Perley

National Government

Mr. PERLEY:

How many governmentowned elevators are the government operating, and how many have they under lease? Are there any changes in the terms of leases for the following year? Before the minister answers those questions may I say that I notice on page 192 of the estimates under the heading, "Lands, buildings and works," that there is a considerable decrease. Why is there a decrease of some $80,000? While we were on the previous item I made a computation of the employees. I find there are 610 employees in these three branches. That is quite a large number of employees to carry on the business of the Grain Act. They do not operate many grain elevators. Would the minister give us a statement with respect to the number of elevators, the number under lease and the changes, if any, in the leases and why there are so many employees?

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LIB

James Angus MacKinnon (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. MacKINNON (Edmonton West) :

It is a little difficult to follow all the questions, but I shall start out and answer the first two questions, in any event. The management and operation of the Canadian government public terminal elevators at Saskatoon, Moose Jaw, Lethbridge, Edmonton, Calgary and Prince Rupert are under the Canadian government. The elevator at Port Arthur, Ontario, has been leased to a private firm, and the renewal of that lease is being considered1 at the present time.

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July 24, 1944