July 12, 1944

LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

That is my trouble.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCOME WAR TAX ACT
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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

May not a son-in-law be an invalid?

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NAT
CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

Is not that the idea?

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Subtopic:   INCOME WAR TAX ACT
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Let it stand.

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Subtopic:   INCOME WAR TAX ACT
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

What we wanted to do was to take care of the poor old mother-in-law. That is what we were trying to do before.

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NAT

Gordon Knapman Fraser

National Government

Mr. FRASER (Peterborough West):

With regard to "brothers-in-law, sisters-in-law, sons-in-law and daughters-in-law," after this war, in fact at the present time, a great number of these people are or will be between the ages of eighteen and twenty-one. Under item 2 of the 1943 tax form I find it says, "son, daughter, grand-child, brother or sister between eighteen and twenty-one years of age any time in 1943 who attended a secondary school or university or other educational institute during that year." There might be such cases, and there is no doubt that they should be looked after, because the son or the daughter might be overseas.

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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Well, the state is looking after those.

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NAT

Gordon Knapman Fraser

National Government

Mr. FRASER (Peterborough West):

It may be looking after them,, but there are many cases where boys and' girls have returned), and

Income War Tax

in the event of the death of the husband there should1 be some consideration given, for educational purposes.

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CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. KNOWLES:

Before you leave the item it seeems to me that 'this is the only resolution among the number before us on which I can ask a question which was raised by at least three hon. members during the debate on the budget motion; I refer to the question of an allowance to parents of student nurses under the reference just quoted by the hon. member for Peterborough West with regard to educational institutions. It is a matter about which I wrote some time ago to the Minister of National Revenue and also to the Minister of Finance, and as I say, other hon. members joined me in speaking about it during the main debate; they are not in the chamber just now, or I am sure they would support me in asking this question. I know the answer that is made, namely, that these student nurses are supposed to receive certain remuneration and certain assistance while they are in training. But the parents of all of them, at least those who have written me, are terribly conscious of the expenses to which they are put in order to assist their daughters in going through for the nursing .profession. I have in mind also the fact that the government considers in its whole taxation policy the things which are desirable, such as full production and the encouragement of people to go in for professions which are needed1. Here is a very important and necessary profession, and parents who have written me in cases like this feel quite discouraged because they are not allowed an exemption for daughters between eighteen and twenty-one attending nursing schools. They claim that this should be granted under the heading of "educational institutions," and I feel they are right. Could the minister make a statement on the matter?

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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Representations having been made to me by students, I wrote to the department in fulfilment of a promise I made, and I received the answer, if I recall rightly, that it was a question of degree. When students over eighteen years of age go to college the expense is much more substantial-travelling, clothing, board and lodging. Students in a nursing school get board and lodging free, and washing as well, but the allowance is pitiful. At least, that is my experience in a hospital I know something about. While nurses are in training they do not get enough to clothe them.

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Subtopic:   INCOME WAR TAX ACT
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?

An hon. MEMBER:

Some of them do not get anything.

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Subtopic:   INCOME WAR TAX ACT
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I would be astonished if there were nursing schools now where they do not get anything, because these girls work strenuously and work long hours. I have observed them as a patient in a hospital and I know exactly what the labour is. It is a question of degree of drain on the parents and I quite agree that the situations are different. Nevertheless the principle is the same. Perhaps some limited allowance should be made for this and I should like to know the reaction of the department. I add my voice to that of the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre because of the insistence of some of my own constituents who have experienced some difficulty in this matter. There is a great shortage of nurses and we ought to encourage nursing. We are encouraging doctors to go into the army, and we might encourage girls to go into nursing schools on the same theory by which we are helping the doctors. There is some merit in the matter and, as I stated, in my opinion, it is just a matter of degree.

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Subtopic:   INCOME WAR TAX ACT
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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

While, as the hon. member for YorkJSunbury says, it is a matter of degree, the girls who go in for nursing are engaged for the whole year, whereas many of the students who go to university are able during the summer vacation to assist in the payment of university fees. The girls who are nursing are employed the full year and they receive a very small amount. If you inquire at the hospitals you will find that it is usually about $10 a month, and out of that there are certain levies that are made by the hospital, which reduces it to about half that amount.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCOME WAR TAX ACT
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?

An hon. MEMBER:

In some cases to nothing.

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Subtopic:   INCOME WAR TAX ACT
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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

Yes. If a girl happens to break a thermometer or some other equipment she must pay for it, and quite often the girls find that at the end of the month they have nothing coming to them. The parents have to buy their uniforms when they go in-

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NAT
CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

-and they must clothe them throughout the course, which is three years. There is a very strong case, apart altogether from the necessity of encouraging girls to go into the nursing profession, for the treatment of girls in training as students in other educational institutions are treated. I add my words to those that have already been spoken in this regard.

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NAT

Gordon Knapman Fraser

National Government

Mr. FRASER (Peterborough West):

In the budget debate the hon. member for Winnipeg South (Mr. Mutch) spoke on the

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Income War Tax

matter. I followed him, and at page 4506 of Hansard I read from a letter in which the statement was made that at Kingston the student received) no allowance, so that the parents pay for clothing and other necessities.

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CCF

Joseph William Noseworthy

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. NOSEWORTHY:

That is true of

Toronto.

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Subtopic:   INCOME WAR TAX ACT
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July 12, 1944