July 7, 1944

PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. DIEFENBAKER:

Yes, it is a promise. And the minister says he is going to remind him of the promise. The minister is the man who will determine whether or not the promise can be carried into effect. Does that not show the true picture? All the minister has to do to-day, is to say that the opportunity will be given, if asked for, so that the promise can be carried into effect. All the minister has to do to-day is to allow an amendment to the transport regulations so that reference can be had to the courts if the application is denied. Only in that way, when the board acts unfairly in a matter of jurisdiction, would Ontario or any other province have the right of recourse to the courts. The minister says he will help the premier of Ontario; at the same time I ask him to make it possible for that promise to be carried into effect by making provision for an appeal which does not exist at the present time should the province's application be denied.

Topic:   AERONAUTICS ACT
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LIB
PC
LIB
PC
LIB

William Henry Golding

Liberal

Mr. GOLDING:

Legal fellows-lawyers, like yourself. The hon. member does not understand me.

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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. DIEFENBAKER:

Well, that is a remark which certainly shows an intelligent view of what is being discussed!

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LIB
PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. DIEFENBAKER:

The remark was far removed from what I was discussing.

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LIB
PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. DIEFENBAKER:

I think every other member understands what I am endeavouring to say, because I have been outlining a principle of responsible government, and the right of the individual to an appeal from the decision of the boards. If this one is set up. it will go a long way farther than any other board ever set up by this parliament, and will not be responsible even to the governor in council. It is responsible only to the minister. Aeainst that I make my protest. And I am asking the minister whether he will consider

Aeronautics Act

giving an opportunity for an appeal, so all individuals, however great or however small they may be, will have equal opportunity and equal access to justice by making provision for appeal to the courts.

Topic:   AERONAUTICS ACT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Munitions and Supply)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

If I am asked to rule on legal questions I shall be glad to do so. The hon. member must know that the Aeronautics Act does not preclude the province from obtaining a legal decision as to its right to operate air lines within the province. I can tell him how they can get such a decision, without any trouble at all, namely, by operating an air line without obtaining a licence under this act.

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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. DIEFENBAKER:

The pilot cannot operate as he is subject to cancellation of his licence.

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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Munitions and Supply)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

The pilot can operate without any trouble, depending upon his record. A licence can only be taken away for cause. However, this represents the logical way of doing things. That is the way it was done in New York state. An operation was set up there, and the matter was referred to the courts. The same procedure can follow here. I suggest that my hon. friend give legal' advice as to why it cannot be done that way.

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PC
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Munitions and Supply)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

As an engineer I dislike to give a legal opinion to a lawyer, although sometimes I find it is desirable to do so, just to keep the record straight.

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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. DIEFENBAKER:

You have fifteen lawyers in the cabinet. They should know.

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

Good ones, too.

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NAT
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Munitions and Supply)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

I may say this, that if the province or anybody else wishes to take the responsibility for establishing an air line, I hardly think any obstacles will be placed in their way. Each application will be judged on its merits. The intention is, as soon as this act passes, to set up a board-just as strong a board as it is possible to appoint, and to proceed vigorously to develop a postwar system of aviation for Canada.

My hon. friend does not say positively that all the services are to be government owned, but he keeps hinting at that. Such is not the case. That is not the intention. I have said many times that the Trans-Canada system is government-owned, and will continue to be government-owned. But it is the purpose to develop subsidiary operations as private operations under this act.

Topic:   AERONAUTICS ACT
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July 7, 1944