May 4, 1944

LIB

Item agreed to. , To assist in meeting the extra costs of universities in accelerating courses in medicine and dentistry and to provide financial assistance to students who are ineligible for assistance underdominion-provincial student aid plan, $300,000.


NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

Does this apply only to professional men who are going into the armed forces?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Humphrey Mitchell (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MITCHELL:

We have some control here. It applies to medicine, dentistry and the sciences. When the courses are completed the men who are fit have to go into the services. If they are not fit to enter the services we have the right to direct them where they will be most necessary, to industry or to other forms of endeavour in the war effort.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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CCF

Joseph William Burton

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. BURTON:

How many students are involved in this plan?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Humphrey Mitchell (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MITCHELL:

I have not the statistics in front of me, but I shall be glad to give them to my hon. friend to-morrow.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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Item agreed to. '.VIr. Mitchell.] Vocational training for discharged members of Canada's armed forces, including undischarged commitments of previous years, $7§0,000.


NAT

Ernest Edward Perley

National Government

Mr. PERLEY:

I should like to have a little information with respect to this item. How many of these vocational training schools have been established, particularly in the west? How many are taking courses at the present time? There seems to be some misunderstanding with respect to these courses. I have had some correspondence with the superintendent of vocational training in Ottawa and also with the district rehabilitation board at Regina. They started one of these schools in my home town, so that I know whereof I speak. Under the arrangements made with the man who took on the job of giving this training, provision was made for eight men. Six turned up to take the course, with the understanding that when they had completed a four months' course they would be given some assistance in becoming established and starting up. The course was in shoemaking, harness-making and repairing. Quite a lot of expense was gone to in changing over the premises and equipment, and then when one of the men who were taking this course was ready to start up for himself, he rented a place at Whitewood and prepared to start. Then he was informed that he could get no assistance. Of course it came to the attention of the others who were taking the course that possibly they would not get any assistance in starting up when they had completed the course. There evidently must have been some misunderstanding, in which the man in charge of the school shared, because it was understood by them all that they would get assistance in establishing themselves once they had completed the course. What are the arrangements made with those taking these courses? Also, how many of these vocational schools are being set up in Saskatchewan? I have correspondence here between the men and the department, but it is late and I shall not read it. It is, however, evident from the correspondence that there must have been a misunderstanding. The department says in one of its letters that it is surprised that the man in charge of the school had the impression that the men were to receive assistance in starting up. I presume the facts as to what was paid for turning over the establishment are confidential. I repeat my question. What arrangements are made with the men who are taking these courses? Are they to get any assistance when they are ready to start up for themselves, or are they not? I hold in my hand a bulletin entitled, "Post-war Planning Information," got out, I presume, by the minister's department, and it is clear

War Appropriation-Labour

from this pamphlet that the men taking the course were to get assistance, not only so much a day for their keep and expenses while taking the course, but other assistance. How many similar courses have been started in Saskatchewan?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Humphrey Mitchell (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MITCHELL:

We do the training and the placing of the men. Any further assistance would be under the jurisdiction of pensions and national health.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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NAT

Ernest Edward Perley

National Government

Mr. PERLEY:

L will read the last paragraph on page 2 of this pamphlet, "Post-war Planning Information". It states:

The reestablishment orders provide six types of maintenance allowances, plus other financial assistance, to ex-service men and women. . . .

And so on. Then it gives the rates for a single person, for a married person and so on, and it says that assistance will be given when they have finished their course.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

The six types of maintenance referred to are the benefits under the order in council. My hon. friend is probably quoting from one of the regulations with reference to benefits while the men are undergoing the training courses, so much for a married man, so much for a single person. I have not the exact figures, but approximately three thousand men who have been discharged from the forces have taken these courses. I shall be able to give my hon. friend the exact figures when my estimates are before the committee, also information as to the nature of the courses given and the places where they are being taken! We also give vocational guidance. The Department of Labour does the actual training for us. The benefits are given by the Department of Pensions and National Health, and the counselling is done by our expert advisers.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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NAT

Ernest Edward Perley

National Government

Mr. PERLEY:

I have the correspondence here and I am prepared to pass it over to the minister. I know some of the boys who are taking these courses, and in view of the misunderstanding, I think they should be given some assistance in starting up for themselves. One fellow has finished his four months' course, and if the others are to be told that they will not get the assistance which they were promised in starting up after completing their course, it would hardly be fair to them because they certainly understood that they were to get such assistance. Even the man in charge understood it that way. Therefore I ask that special consideration be given to these men. I make the suggestion that the men who have finished 100-167

their course be given assistance in establishing themselves, with the understanding that it shall be repaid, if necessary, after a certain given time, perhaps so many months. One fellow who has finished his course has a good chance to start up now in Whitewood. I make the plea that these men be given this assistance.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

Will my hon. friend send me over that circular?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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NAT
SC

Robert Fair

Social Credit

Mr. FAIR:

What percentage of the men who took the training have found employment?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

A very high percentage. I have not the exact figure with me, but I shall be glad to get it for my hon. friend.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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NAT

Howard Charles Green

National Government

Mr. GREEN:

Is there any provision for giving this vocational training to men who are in pensions hospitals? The suggestion has been made to me that men in pensions hospitals are unable to get different types of courses such as educational courses, training in handicraft and work of that type.

Mr. LaFLECHE: As soon as my estimates are before the committee I have a statement to make which I am sure will satisfy my hon. friend that the men in the hospitals of my colleague the minister of pensions do get the benefit of the Canadian Legion educational services. I speak with assurance because 1 have been inquiring into that matter for the past two days.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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NAT

Howard Charles Green

National Government

Mr. GREEN:

I am referring to vocational training, which is a different matt-r from educational training. What provision is made for giving vocational training to men in hospitals?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Humphrey Mitchell (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MITCHELL:

We just train in the

field, not in institutions. I would assume that my hon. friend's question should be directed to the Minister of Pensions. We are training thousands of people, but we do not go into institutions.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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NAT

Howard Charles Green

National Government

Mr. GREEN:

Is there any reason why

vocational training could not be given to men in hospitals?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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May 4, 1944