March 29, 1944

LIB

Douglas Charles Abbott (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. ABBOTT:

I cannot say whether they will be called on the callable date. Obviously that would depend on the interest rate prevailing at that time. If the interest rate then was the same as it is to-day, 3i per cent, I think it is fair to say that they would not be called. If on the other hand, the rate should be two per cent, as it was before the war, perhaps it is a fair assumption that they would be called.

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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PC

Joseph Henry Harris

Progressive Conservative

Mr. HARRIS (Danforth):

That was the deposition I wanted to get from the parliamentary assistant that they would not be called, because over and above the amount of the interest rate, there is the cost of issuing new securities, brokerage and what not, which runs into sizable figures.

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. KNOWLES:

Can the parliamentary assistant give the total debt of the Canadian National Railways, including bonded indebtedness and any moneys owing to consolidated revenue fund? I understand the practice has been followed during the war of lending money directly from consolidated revenue to the

Canadian National Railways to make it unnecessary for them to sell bonds in competition with the government. Would the parliamentary assistant also give the comparative figure before the war to show what the trend is?

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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LIB

Douglas Charles Abbott (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. ABBOTT:

I am afraid I have not comparative figures to show what it was before the war. I can give the total funded debt of the Canadian National Railways as of December 31, 1943, and the other information could be given when the bill is in committee. The total funded debt as of December 31, 1943 was $744,232,472.60, made up as follows: Guaranteed by the Dominion of Canada, $685,290,924.76; guaranteed by the provinces, $2,786,056.20; unguaranteed, $33,479,491.64; unguaranteed serial equipment issues, $22,676,000; totalling the figure I have mentioned.

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

That is only funded indebtedness?

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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LIB

Douglas Charles Abbott (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. ABBOTT:

Yes.

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

It does not

include any money the railway borrowed from the government, does it?

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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LIB

Douglas Charles Abbott (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. ABBOTT:

I think I would have to ask my hon. friend to let that question stand.

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

What is the amount of interest paid by the railway per annum?

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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LIB

Douglas Charles Abbott (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. ABBOTT:

The total annual interest charges as of December 31, 1943, were

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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NAT

Gordon Knapman Fraser

National Government

Mr. FRASER (Peterborough West):

When will this loan be made?

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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LIB

Douglas Charles Abbott (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. ABBOTT:

This is an enabling measure, similar to the act passed in 1938, to authorize the railway company to issue from time to time refunding loans to take care of other issues which mature or are callable between now and the end of 1950.

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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NAT

Gordon Knapman Fraser

National Government

Mr. FRASER (Peterborough West):

The rate is 3i per cent? Does that interfere with the victory loans? These railway issues are guaranteed by the government.

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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LIB

Douglas Charles Abbott (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. ABBOTT:

At the present time that is the interest rate being paid by the railway on advances made by the government. It is somewhat higher than the rate which the government itself is paying for the money it is borrowing through the victory loans.

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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LIB

Thomas Bruce McNevin

Liberal

Mr. McNEVIN:

What amount of profit did the railway turn into consolidated revenue fund this year?

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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LIB

Douglas Charles Abbott (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. ABBOTT:

I will answer my hon. friend in this way. As I stated in my opening

Exchequer Court Act

remarks the cash surpluses for 1941, 1942 and 1943 have been applied to the extent of $22,622,073.15 in repayment of loans made by the government, under the refunding act of 1938. The surpluses for those three years aggregate-

I have not the exact figure here-in excess of $60,000,000. The balance of approximately $40,000,000 has been applied to reduce sundry advances made to the railway by the government for capital purposes. The point I emphasized before was that the railway company has not retained any portion of its surpluses during those years.

Resolution reported, read the second time and concurred in. Mr. Abbott thereupon moved for leave to introduce Bill No. 64, respecting the Canadian National Railways and to provide for the refunding of matured, maturing and callable obligations.

Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.

Topic:   CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Subtopic:   PROVISION TO MEET CERTAIN EXPENDITURES AND GUARANTEE OF SECURITIES AND INDEBTEDNESS
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EXCHEQUER COURT ACT

AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPOINTMENT OF THIRD JUDGE


The house resumed from Friday, March 24, consideration in committee of bill No. 35, to amend the Exchequer Court Act-Mr. St. Laurent-Mr. McCann in the chair. On section 2-Power to appoint a deputy judge.


NAT

Thomas Langton Church

National Government

Mr. CHURCH:

I should like to know from the Minister of Justice whether the only change is the adding of another judge to the court?

Mr. ST. LAURENT: That is all.

Topic:   EXCHEQUER COURT ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPOINTMENT OF THIRD JUDGE
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March 29, 1944