March 24, 1944

LIB

Thomas Vien (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order.

Technical Education Act

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

I am suggesting, now that the government has brought down the resolution-

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

Order.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

I think the Speaker will be able to keep order without the Minister of Pensions and National Health making a lot of noises.'

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

My hon. friend is disobeying the Speaker's ruling.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

No. I am not. If I am, the Speaker will bring me to order. I do not require the Minister of Pensions and National Health to tell me what to do. I can take care of myself much better than the minister can take care of himself or me.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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LIB

Thomas Vien (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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NAT

Gordon Graydon (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. GRAYDON:

It is like the blind leading the blind.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

I could have said all I had to say in three minutes if I had been left alone. I rose for the purpose of saying that I hope some time during the present session, and very soon, that instead of a measure merely to pay out the remainder of the grant to Manitoba, the government will bring down a general measure of technical education for the post-war period. It is not enough merely to pay out the remainder of the grant which is now twenty-five years old; the government ought in the very near future to bring down legislation to Cover the whole field of technical education, because men are already coming back from overseas and men and women coming out of war factories, and the programme of technical education should be under way now to deal with the post-war period before it is too late.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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SC

Frederick Davis Shaw

Social Credit

Mr. F. D. SHAW (Red Deer):

While I agree wholeheartedly with the view of the previous speaker (Mr. Douglas, Weyburn) with respect to the effect which this resolution has upon the act itself, I shall not endeavour to go beyond the limitations which you, sir, have set.

We realize that this resolution has been brought forward with the express purpose of making available to Manitoba certain moneys which it has not used heretofore. I hope that Manitoba will recognize in the action which parliament is taking in this regard the fact that in that province, as a consequence of war, many establishments have been set up which, following their usefulness for war purposes, may well be utilized in connection with technical education. Moreover, I hope that Manitoba will recognize that as a result of the

specialized type of training which we are giving to-day to many of our service personnel, we shall before very long have an abundance of fully qualified instructors to carry on technical educational work in that province. What I say of Manitoba in that regard applies equally well to the other Canadian provinces.

I trust that Manitoba will recognize, together with all the other provinces, that in order to maintain fully qualified and competent technical instructors it must be prepared to recognize the importance of that type of work and to pay salaries which will induce these people to take a more intense interest in that type of instruction work and, therefore, add greatly to technical education in that province.

There is a good deal that I could say, but let me just add this: Not only must we

concentrate upon providing technical education for the purpose of enabling young people to earn a living, but we must so educate them as to enable them to make profitable use of their spare time. I think we have almost entirely overlooked that in connection with our techincal education in the past. I agree with this resolution wholeheartedly, Mr. Speaker, as do the other members of this group.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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IND

Joseph Sasseville Roy

Independent

Mr. J. S. ROY (Gaspe):

Mr. Speaker, the purpose of this resolution is to make available to the province of Manitoba money provided by the federal government to encourage technical education, which offer Manitoba did not accept in years gone by. I shall certainly support the principle of this resolution, because I think it is a good thing to help technical education throughout Canada.

There is another reason why I am supporting this resolution. It is that it will create a precedent which may be very beneficial to my own province of Quebec, where the same situation exists in connection with old age pensions. For nearly ten years sums were provided by the federal government to help pay the cost of-old age pensions throughout Canada, but the province of Quebec did not take advantage of that offer. Perhaps, following this precedent, Quebec may be able to ask this government for the share of the money provided for all provinces for that purpose which it did not claim in previous years, and that, of course, would be of great benefit to the province of Quebec.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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LIB

Humphrey Mitchell (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Hon. HUMPHREY MITCHELL (Minister of Labour):

After listening to many hon. members this evening, one would almost wonder whether we had any educational system at all in this country. Let me say

Technical Education Act

that I entirely agree with the leader of the opposition (Mr. Graydon) and the other hon. members who spoke in regard to jurisdiction. I believe the strength of any nation the size of this dominion is predicated upon a federal constitution under which such things as education come within the jurisdiction of the provinces, and I do not believe any political party in this country has a first mortgage on the will to see to it that our boys and girls are properly educated.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Order.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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LIB

Humphrey Mitchell (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MITCHELL:

That is all right; I am going to get in my answer. My hon. friend the leader of the opposition made a fairly good propaganda speech earlier this evening. I wish to say very frankly that in my judgment those who framed the technical education legislation in this country planned better than they knew. Had it not been for the foundation laid by the government in 1919, following the action taken some years previously in setting up a royal commission to study the question, we would not have had an industrial structure that could have accomplished what has been done during the present war. I should like to pay tribute to the provinces. The dominion government has had complete cooperation from every province, from the Atlantic to the Pacific, in the war training programme undertaken since the beginning of the war. To listen to some hon. members, one would think almost no money had been spent on this sort of training in recent years. Let me tell hon. members that the federal government, in conjunction with the provinces, have spent over $18,000,000 since war broke out and have trained over 300,000 people in the technical and plant schools of this country.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

Mr. Speaker, I rise to a point of order. I wanted to discuss technical education and the need for technical training both during and after the war. You, Mr. Speaker, decided that I should not do so under this resolution. Now the minister is proceeding to give the house a report on the training that has been undertaken by the government during the war and the preparation that is being made for the post-war period.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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LIB

Humphrey Mitchell (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MITCHELL:

There is a time and place for that, but I should like to say to some hon. members-

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn) :

I should like a ruling, Mr. Speaker, on the point of order I have raised. If the minister wishes to speak to the point of order, that is all right.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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LIB

Thomas Vien (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

The point of order raised has been dealt with by the Chair several

times to-night. This resolution deals with the unexpended portion of an appropriation, and I would ask all hon. members to adhere to the terms of the resolution.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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LIB

Humphrey Mitchell (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MITCHELL:

It has been said that this government has no policy in regard to education, or something to that effect.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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CCF

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

That is not dealt with in this resolution.

Topic:   TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT TO PROVIDE FOR APPROPRIATION OF UNEXPENDED FUNDS
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March 24, 1944