February 14, 1944

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An hon. MEMBER:

What was he doing there?

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

I do not assume my hon. friend is suggesting that the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar was staying at the headquarters of the Liberal party. He happened to be in the same building.

Answer: Mr. Speaker, I have before me the full list that was taken down by the C.C.F., not only the 7 numbers quoted in Hansard but the full list of cars, the numbers of which were taken down by the C.C.F. and referred to the licence office at Regina for check, and this will provide a sufficient answer to that statement. The cars are as follows-this list is rather long, containing 29 car numbers and names of owners, and I will put them on Hansard unless it is the wish of the house that I read them.

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Some hon. MEMBERS:

Read them.

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CCF
NAT
LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

If it is the wish of the house I will read them. The numbers are as follows:

21025 Department of Natural Resources, Federal Government, Regina.

20458 Dominion Department of Agriculture, P.F.R.A., 910 McCallum Hill Building, Regina.

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NAT

Gordon Graydon (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. GRAYDON:

Put them on Hansard without reading them. We could not discuss labour matters just now, which is a much more important matter than Saskatchewan elections.

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

I am quite sure that if I did not answer the charge that has been made it would take more time to do it in the country than to deal with labour, when my hon. friends opposite get out there. Then, if it is the wish of the house, I will put the remainder of the list on Hansard. It is as follows:

20067 Arnold W. Loehr, farmer and provincial civil servant, Muenster.

20533 Saskatchewan Pool Elevators, Limited, Humboldt.

8147 John Deere Plow Company, Saskatoon.

765 Waldemir Yanchinski, farmer, Yellow Creek.

5493 Senhouse D. Noble, farmer, Colonsay.

2202 Lake of the Woods Company, Limited, 34 Cambridge Court, Saskatoon.

25357 William L. Dutton, farmer, Govan.

25983 William S. Nobbs, farmer, Portreeve.

20452 Dominion Department of Agriculture, P.F.R.A., 910 McCallum Hill Building, Regina.

20444 Dominion Department of Agriculture, P.F.R.A., 910 McCallum Hill Building, Regina.

20639 Archibald McCallum, 2910 Angus street, Regina, organizer.

2022 Ryan Brothers, Limited, James street, Winnipeg.

20456 Dominion Department of Agriculture, P.F.R.A., 910 McCallum Hill Building, Regina.

20474 Dominion Department of Agriculture, P.F.R.A., 910 McCallum Hill Building, Regina.

2914 T. M. Ball Lumber Company, Limited, 614-9th Street, Saskatoon.

21843 August J. Kruse, Humboldt, farmer.

20471 Dominion Department of Agriculture, P.F.R.A., 910 McCallum Hill Building, Regina.

21322 John F. Anderson, organizer, 7 Banner Block, Regina.

79938 August Kachur, farmer, Lanigan.

75069 Mrs. Elsie Tallentire, housewife, Whitewood.

58315 William Bernesky, farmer, Connel Creek.

57166 August Delke, farmer, Jansen.

4080 Russel William Ley, Viscount, farmer.

20475 Dominion Department of Agriculture, P.F.R.A., 910 McCallum Hill Building, Regina.

20731 Francis L. Brennan, salesman, 253011th avenue, Regina.

2812 The Wadena Nurseries, Canada Building, Saskatoon.

5737 Massey Harris Company, Limited, 1st avenue, Saskatoon.

It will be noted that in that list there is one federal car not mentioned by the member for Rosetown-Biggar, namely the first, and three operated by officials of the provincial governments, who, I presume, cover the territory in their ordinary work. 'What does this list together with the list placed on Hansard by the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar, indicate? It indicates first that what the C.C.F. did was to take the number of the cars standing outside the hotel in Humboldt at which the member for Rosetown-Biggar was a guest, send the entire list to Regina to be checked, take from the list cars which were registered as the property of the Department of Agriculture of the federal government; and then, without any further check, the member for Rosetown-Biggar makes a charge against me as a member of this government on the ground that because the Liberal headquarters were in the hotel the cars must have been used by employees of the federal Department of Agriculture for political purposes.

In the first place the member could not have stopped in the room in which he did in that hotel without knowing that the engineers of P.F.R.A. had a drafting room on the second floor of the hotel, which was occupied by them throughout the summer, before, during and after this election campaign, until the construction of the dam was agreed to.

The member for Rosetown-Biggar further states:

We took a number of car numbers; all Saskatchewan licence numbers of the dominion Department of Agriculture, P.F.R.A., Regina.

The list above shows they took a number of car numbers and selected a group of seven which they found to be P.F.R.A. cars registered at Regina. The list and the work being done by those operating these cars is as follows:

20458. This car is operated by M. B. J. Brockman, who has been stationed at Humboldt for several years on small water development. His car is always stationed at Humboldt, but my information is that it was not used in the election.

20474. This car is operated by Mr. Ed. Hogan, who resides just outside the Humboldt seat but who did some inspection work in the constituency during the election while Mr. Brockman was on annual vacation leave.

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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

This is all out of order. There is no question of privilege here.

Privilege-Mr. Gardiner

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NAT

Percy Chapman Black

National Government

Mr. BLACK (Cumberland):

I ask for a ruling, Mr. Speaker, as to whether the statement read by the Minister of Agriculture is of urgent public importance.

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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

It is a question of privilege.

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

The statement was made that I as a member of the government ordered and directed the use of cars owned by the government for political purposes during an election campaign; and as a matter of privilege, Mr. Speaker, I have the right to reply to that statement, made not only in this house but outside.

Car No. 20452. This car is operated by Mr. L. D. McMillan, district engineer in that district, who is in charge of the investigation work on the proposed water supply dam in Wolverine creek. He was also in charge of the drafting room in the hotel. Mr. McMillan is an engineer who comes from the province of Manitoba and about whose politics I know nothing.

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LIB

Thomas Vien (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

The hon. the minister is going through a list of cars. I do not know just what his object is, but in so far as he is identified with any of the cars-

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LIB
NAT
LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

A statement was made that I was using these cars in an election campaign in the province of Saskatchewan, utilizing public funds to purchase gasoline in order to operate the cars, and I am stating who was using them and for what purpose, to refute the statement just repeated.

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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

I think the minister should be allowed to make his statement of privilege.

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Some hon. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh.

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February 14, 1944