June 25, 1943

LIB

Joseph-Arthur Bradette (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN (Translation):

I would ask the hon. member for Laval-Two Mountains to remain within the limits of the matter before the house. He surely has no right to deal with this matter now, but he may do so when the house considers in committee the estimates pertaining to the Department of Justice.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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IND

Liguori Lacombe

Independent Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE (Translation):

Mr. Chairman, I respectfully submit that we are discussing general estimates, war estimates under a motion which appears on the order paper, and that I have a perfect right to deal with the case of Mr. Camillien Houde.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB
LIB

Joseph-Arthur Bradette (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

I have expressed my opinion.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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IND

Liguori Lacombe

Independent Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE (Translation):

I know the Liberal member is too skittish, he who defeated Mr. Bourassa, the most independent and truly Canadian man who ever lived.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Joseph-Arthur Bradette (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN (Translation):

Orderl I would request the hon. member for Laval-Two Mountains to abide by the decision I have just given. With his parliamentary experience, the hon. member should realize that this is not the time to discuss the estimates of the Minister of Justice. I do hope he will obey this ruling. Otherwise, I shall be compelled to resort to other means.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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IND

Liguori Lacombe

Independent Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE (Translation):

Mr. Chairman, I admire your sense of equity and of justice. I realize that your decision does not reflect your personal feelings and I know full well that there are members here who are interested in preventing me from having my say. It was not the Minister of Justice who raised the point of order.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Maurice Lalonde

Liberal

Mr. LALONDE (Translation):

The last words of the hon. member might convey the impression that I am one of those who are interested in seeing that certain things should not be revealed in parliament, in connection with Mr. Camillien Houde.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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IND

Liguori Lacombe

Independent Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE (Translation):

I submit the hon. member has no right to interrupt me without my permission. I shall pay a visit to the hon. member for Labelle the next time elections will take place in his riding.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Joseph-Arthur Bradette (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN (Translation):

The hon. member for Laval-Two Mountains has said that the Chair may be influenced in its rulings some way or another. I will tell the hon. member that the rulings of the Chair have never been subject to any influence whatever on any occasion or at any time, and I ask him to withdraw his statement.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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IND
LIB

Joseph-Arthur Bradette (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN (Translation):

I understood the hon. gentleman to say that the Chair was influenced in its rulings. I wish to say to the hon. member that he must withdraw the remarks he has made in this connection. Never, under any circumstances, has the Chair been influenced in any way when giving its ruling.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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IND

Liguori Lacombe

Independent Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE (Translation):

I have never said you had been subjected to any form of influence. I said you wrere just and equitable. You may ask the Clerk of the House and those who have heard me. They know what I said. I have nothing to withdraw. I will say what I have to say in this house; I have already been ordered out of this chamber; if it is necessary I will suffer to be turned out once more, and I don't care a rap.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB
IND

Liguori Lacombe

Independent Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE (Translation):

As I said a while ago, these individuals are digging into our revenues with their tw7o hands; they are celebrating in the name of those who toil and labour, nay in the name of liberty itself. Here, those liberties for which we have fought so hard during centuries are thrown overboard. The most sacred of these liberties is done away with, namely, freedom of speech in this British country of ours.

I now wish to call the attention, of the house- to the abuses which are taking place in our war industries. I have already called the labour minister's attention to all these irregularities and injustices which have been brought to light in these plants. Bribery is still a common practice. Labourers are laid off while ipersons who are financially independent are being given the best .positions. It is currently repeated,-and I think I ought to know since more than 2,000 of my voters are engaged in war work in the Bouchard plant,- that one must pay ten or twenty dollars in order to obtain and to keep one's job. It is a shame in a country where our workers are overburdened with taxes. As I did more than two years ago, I suggest again to the government that all war industries should be placed under the supervision of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

Let us now speak of the labour in those industries. Through lack of materials the workmen employed in the war industries have been out of work most of the time.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB
IND

Liguori Lacombe

Independent Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE (Translation):

If it is not true, prove it. I ask the hon. member for Wright to rise from his seat and to prove his assertion if he can do it, and I invite him not to stand behind the curtains. Name those industries.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Rodolphe Leduc

Liberal

Mr. LEDUC (Translation):

About those industries, no workmen have been out of work for lack of material. The hon. member is saying those things. Let him prove them.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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?

Mr LACOMBE (Translation):

In reply to the hon. member for AAr right I state once more that the workmen were out of work for lack of material. Hundreds of workmen were sleeping on the job at the Bouchard plant, at Ste. Therese, fifteen miles from my own town. They had no lumber, no nickel, nothing to work on. Let the hon. member pay a visit to my beautiful county. I shall be glad to show him round the lovely touristic region. Then, we shall go to the Bouchard plant where he will see for himself all the extravagance going on in that war industry. I once said to the hon. member for Wright that he would sooner

LMr. Lacombe.]

or later be appointed to the senate-he would not get a judgeship because he does not belong to the legal profession as does the hon. member for Labelle before whom I might perhaps be fortunate enough to appear.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Maurice Lalonde

Liberal

Mr. LALONDE (Translation):

On a question of privilege, Mr. Chairman, the hon. member has no right to impute motives.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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June 25, 1943