July 17, 1942

LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

We will sell war savings certificates and small victory bonds to the small wage-earners. My hon. friends may say that we won't, but we will.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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SC

Charles Edward Johnston

Social Credit

Mr. JOHNSTON (Bow River):

But a lot

less than you did before, because your field is so much narrower.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

You can cry "defeat" all you like, but we are going to do it, and we know how. However, before eleven o'clock I want to deal with this victory bond argument. Let us say that the small fellow is not going to buy any war savings certificates and victory bonds, but the higher-income man is. I do not admit that that is so, but for the sake of argument we will agree that it is so. Is it. unfair to pay the man who does buy victory bonds 3 per cent? That is, is it unfair to pay 3 per cent for ten- or twelve-year money, and 2 per cent for two-year money? Is that unfair? I know it is going to be argued that it is. But we have borrowed money from the banks at If per cent; we have borrowed money from the banks also at two-thirds of one per cent. That is what we pay the hated banking institutions. Why? Not because the banks are generous or anything like that, but because it is short-term money and because it is not worth as much as long-term money is. Two per cent is a fair rate for money for that term. We have to take some little chance there; we cannot get the thing so scientifically correct.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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SC

Charles Edward Johnston

Social Credit

Mr. JOHNSTON (Bow River):

But you are forcing him to take that small rate.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

But we are forcing the big fellow to let us keep the money and not return it at all.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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SC

Charles Edward Johnston

Social Credit

Mr. JOHNSTON (Bow River):

But there is this distinction-

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Oh, well, forget it.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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SC

Charles Edward Johnston

Social Credit

Mr. JOHNSTON (Bow River):

You cannot dismiss it so easily, though.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

I have not dismissed it

easily. I have worked it out.

I think I should correct a statement I made to the hon. member for Peterborough West. I do not know that I understood him correctly. I think he asked whether the 10 per cent would apply to both the income of the husband and the income of the wife.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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NAT

Gordon Knapman Fraser

National Government

Mr. FRASER (Peterborough West):

If

they both had income, would they both be allowed to deduct the 10 per cent?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

I think not. It is not clear. I think the one would be 10 per cent and the other would be 8 per cent.

Income War Tax Act

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Is this

under resolution 6?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Yes.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I was going to ask that question, to be clear. Where the husband and wife both have income, they are treated under resolution 6 as if they were single persons. Would they be both entitled to only the $800, or under the 8 per cent rate?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

I shall have to think about the matter between now and Monday, but I believe the implication of another amendment is that, as regards earned income, she is regarded as a single person and he as a married man. That would give him 10 per cent and the wife 8 per cent.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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NAT

Gordon Knapman Fraser

National Government

Mr. FRASER (Peterborough West):

That refers to earned income?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

That refers to earned income, yes.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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NAT

Gordon Knapman Fraser

National Government

Mr. FRASER (Peterborough West):

But

supposing it was invested income, it would be ten?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

No, I think it would be

eight.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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NAT

Gordon Knapman Fraser

National Government

Mr. FRASER (Peterborough West):

On

all?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INCREASE IN TAX ALONE
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July 17, 1942