July 13, 1942

LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

-and brain trusters.

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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Men without practical experience.

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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Yes. Sometimes we get bankers. We have asked the banks to release some of their best men, and they do. We have put these men in responsible positions. Often they are very good; they are excellent. They have practical business experience and financial experience as well; their heads are level, and so on. But how often have I heard it said that they are favouring their old clients. How often have I heard that statement made? I have heard it in this house. Members in this house say that there should be occupational representation on the war-

Special War Revenue Act

time prices and trade board. That statement has been made repeatedly, and I have risen and said1, "no occupational representation on the board. A dozen civil servants; that is all we will have". Then it is objected that we are relying on men without practical experience. But if we once started putting on, that board representatives of particular callings or occupations, making it a kind of parliament where each had' a constituency to represent instead of representing the interests of the dominion as a whole, as civil servants are very likely to do-and in practically every case they do-I am sure we would be in a great deal more trouble than we are in at the present time. Whatever course we take is open to certain objections. Generally speaking, the course that has been followed with the wartime prices and trade board has been to look for ability which has been developed as a result of experience, together with character, and then to disregard the charges that these men are advancing their own interests. If anyone knows wherein they have done so, let him tell me or let him say it in the house.

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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

We have heard it.

Mr. 1LSLEY: Certainly no one wants anything of that kind to go on.

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CON

Norman James Macdonald Lockhart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LOCKHART:

How many more employees will be required across the country, from coast to coast, to carry out the provisions of all these extra taxes? Several people have asked that question.

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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Just under this resolution?

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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Under all

of them.

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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

I cannot say. The hon. gentleman is not referring to the income tax?

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CON

Norman James Macdonald Lockhart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LOCKHART:

No; the number of employees that will be involved as a result of the new budget.

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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

It would be impossible to say. It will be a great many, but I have no means of estimating the number.

Resolution stands.

16. That immediately after the word "cameras" in section five of schedule I to the said act, be added the following words:.

"photographic films and plates; projectors for slides, films or pictures; except those designed exclusively for industrial or professional photographers'use 25 per cent."

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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

What effect will this have on the motion-picture industry. Will they have to pay?

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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

No. Is the hon. member referring to such concerns as the Associated Screen News, for example? Those would be films, projectors, and so on for industrial or professional photographers' use.

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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

They

come under the exception?

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LIB
NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

This is ordinaiy photographic material?

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LIB
NAT

George Black

National Government

Mr. BLACK (Yukon):

As one of thousands of amateur photographers in Canada I know I am correct when I say that the present retail prices of photographic films, plates and projectors are so high now that very few people can afford to buy them or to use them; but if you jump the price 25 per cent, why except those designed exclusively for industrial or professional photographers' use? Take the film designed for the amateur's use; it is, in most instances, identical with that designed for professional use. Therefore, if you are going to increase the price of films 25 per cent to the amateur, you should do so in the case of the industrial or professional user. By not including the industrial or professional user you overlook a great source of income, because much more film and many more projectors are used by them, and they make a profit on the purchase, resale and use of the film and projector, whereas the amateur makes nothing. Why not tax the profit?

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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

It was not designed in order to impose an additional business tax. This is a consumer's tax. To put it on business would increase the cost of carrying on business at a time when price ceilings prevent increases in charges and when heavy income taxes and business and excess profits taxes take excess earnings. In short, this was not designed as a business tax or as an additional cost in doing business.

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NAT

George Black

National Government

Mr. BLACK (Yukon):

In this legislation the minister is getting around the price ceiling. He is putting the price up 25 per cent when it is high enough now, and, as I say, the professional photographer uses films designed exactly as those used by the amateur. How will you tell them apart? What makes a man a professional? Suppose I make a film to-day and sell it; I go into the professional class. Shall I get my films the next day at 25 per cent less than I get them to-day when I am an amateur? It is not fair.

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NAT

Gordon Knapman Fraser

National Government

Mr. FRASER (Peterborough West):

There are many schools throughout the country that have motion-picture projectors. The inspectors

Special War Revenue Act

take pictures and show them throughout their districts. Would the films that they buy be taxable?

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July 13, 1942