July 8, 1942

LIB

Joseph Enoil Michaud (Minister of Public Works; Minister of Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. MICHAUD:

I move the amendment

accordingly, Mr. Chairman.

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I have just one suggestion to make to the minister, namely, that in paragraph (vi) he should include the words "evidences of indebtedness". I think it would be desirable to put that in.

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

I accept the suggestion of the leader of the opposition, that "evidences of indebtedness" go in after "securities for money", so that paragraph (vi) will read:

money, negotiable instruments, securities for money, evidences of indebtedness, evidences of title,

And so on.

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

It would make it more certain. Otherwise that might be left out.

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Yes.

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
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IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

Has the minister excluded what is now subparagraph (vi), or included it?

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Now that becomes subparagraph (vii) "such other property as may be excluded . . ."

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
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Amendment agreed to.


LIB

Thomas Vien (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Shall section 2 as

amended carry?

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
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LIB

William Chisholm Macdonald

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Halifax):

There is just one question I wish to ask before this section is carried. Is it intended that damage occasioned by an accident such as the Halifax explosion of 1917 shall be insurable under the act? In other words, would the words "munitions or explosives being lawfully . . . transported in Canada" in paragraph (1), subparagraph (iv), include munitions or explosives carried in a ship under way or at anchor?

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Yes, Mr. Chairman, that is intended to cover an explosion in a harbour.

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

It is quite clear that it does.

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

Before the section carries, there is another whole aspect of it which I think should have some attention from the committee, and I fear that we shall not have time this afternoon to give it that attention.

I should like to say in a general way that I have been impressed by the work of the committee this afternoon. Those people who

are running about the country talking about the deficiencies of parliament, its carelessness and so forth, would, I think, have been enlightened had they been here to-day and observed the solicitude with which the various hon. members were looking after the interests of their constituents. After all, that is what we are here for-to look after our constituencies, which comprise Canada. I think the minister has honestly attempted to be fair to all concerned. I think he has listened with due sympathy to the requests of the various hon. members.

The matter I wish to discuss is the meaning of "value" in this bill. I note that paragraph (m) of section 2 was deleted. I was a member of the banking and commerce committee which deleted that clause, but I was never satisfied as to the reason why it was deleted. It is, I think, an important matter. The paragraph served as a sort of criterion by reference to which the minister's agents might hope to determine the extent of damage which had been done to a given piece of property-the value of the property. I wonder what, in the minister's mind, compensates in the bill for the loss which it has sustained by the deletion of that paragraph from the section. What is there in the bill now to enable those who will administer it to determine the value of a given piece of property which has been damaged?

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

I was informed that the section, perhaps, did not quite represent the result of the court decisions as to what is the value under an insurance policy, and I understood that the members of the banking and commerce committee felt that the definition should be eliminated, that there should be no definition of value, and that value should be settled now as it is under a fire insurance policy, in accordance with legal principles. I understand it is very difficult to define. I know that Mr. Leonard thought he had defined it about in accordance with the results of the decisions, but some members of the committee disagreed with him, and it was decided to cut it out.

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
Permalink
NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

It will leave the legal remedy. I think that is fair.

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

It seems to me that the bill is decidedly deficient without some such paragraph in it. If what is to be used is the ordinary legal agreement concerning values as in a fire insurance policy, it should

Questions

be so stated, but I certainly would not approve of it without some explanation that would satisfy me.

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Vien (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Shall section 2 carry?

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
Permalink
SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

No, Mr. Chairman. I think this matter is important. Although I have sat as a member of the banking and commerce committee pretty well all through its deliberations, and listened with most attentive care to all that has been said here in connection with the bill, I find confusion resulting from an attempt in the bill to defer to two points of view. I should like to have a discussion to clarify certain matters before it is passed.

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
Permalink
NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I should

like to ask my hon. friend if when we meet again he will give his attention to subsection 3 of section 3 and explain the reason for that arbitrary power and let us know at the next sitting. I was a member of the committee but I did not attend.

Progress reported.

Topic:   WAR RISK INSURANCE
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR COMPENSATION FOR WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
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At six o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order. Thursday, July 9, 1942


July 8, 1942