November 6, 1941

CCF
LIB

Joseph Thorarinn Thorson (Minister of National War Services)

Liberal

Mr. THORSON:

The hon. member ncs

brought up an important question which is worthy of the utmost consideration.

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CCF

Angus MacInnis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. MacINNIS:

I would think that the

minister was speaking for the government, not just for his department.

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LIB

Joseph Thorarinn Thorson (Minister of National War Services)

Liberal

Mr. THORSON:

I am trying to outline the manner in which the national war services regulations have been wrorking and the experiences which have resulted from their operations.

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NAT
LIB

Joseph Thorarinn Thorson (Minister of National War Services)

Liberal

Mr. THORSON:

Those are all available,

and if the hon. member is interested in those figures they will be available to him. I wonder if I might not proceed with the general discussion of the matter and then deal with the various questions that may arise later on. Hon. members will appreciate the fact that there are numerous regulations, that their aspects are manifold and that it would be difficult to cover the operations of my department in a general way unless I confine myself to the highlights, if indeed there are any.

The number of men called for military training under the regulations for the first three training periods of thirty days was 94,852; for the fourth to ninth periods under the four months system, 28,605, or a total of 123,457. The men who reported to training centres during the first three periods numbered 89,524; for the fourth to ninth periods, 24,000, making a total of 113,524. I was in error yesterday when I stated that I thought there was no subsequent medical examination. The fact is that there is an examination when the men report to the training centres.

The number of men rejected on medical grounds during the first three periods numbered 7,823; for the fourth to ninth periods, 2,177, or a total of 10,000. If we take the 1,102 men who reported late for training and who were accepted, and deduct the number rejected on medical grounds, we have a total of 104,626 men who were given training in the first nine training periods.

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NAT

Alfred Johnson Brooks

National Government

Mr. BROOKS:

Is there not a duplication

there? Some men reported for the thirty days and were afterwards called up for the four months.

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LIB

Joseph Thorarinn Thorson (Minister of National War Services)

Liberal

Mr. THORSON:

Not in this table. There are still a number of men who have done only thirty days training and who are being called up under the new proclamation.

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NAT
LIB

Joseph Thorarinn Thorson (Minister of National War Services)

Liberal

Mr. THORSON:

Yes. There are, as

members will realize, a great many other questions arising out of the regulations, but I think I may say this in a general way, that

The War-War Services-Mr. Thorson

while there are difficulties to be ironed out, the national war services regulations have in the main worked out in a highly satisfactory manner.

I should like now to pass on to another function that is assigned to the mobilization division. That is the raising of women volunteers for service with the active forces. In addition to the calling out of men for compulsory military training, the mobilization division of the Department of National War Services is responsible for the recruiting of women volunteers for the Canadian Women's Army Corps and the Canadian Women's Auxiliary Air Force. In view of the ever-increasing demands upon Canada's available manpower by the armed forces, war industries, agriculture and other essential occupations and services, the government announced on June 26, 1941, its formal decision to form women auxiliaries for the Canadian Army and the Royal Canadian Air Force. These auxiliaries will permit the releasing of considerable numbers of men already in the service for combatant duty elsewhere. Several thousand women volunteers who will serve as full-time auxiliaries in the armed forces will be enlisted within the next year. From time to time the Department of National War Services is asked by one of the defence departments to find women volunteers who are qualified in accordance with the standards laid down by the armed forces. All these applications for enlistment are received into the Department of National VVar Services, where the applicant's qualifications are carefully assessed, candidates possessing the required' qualifications are subsequently notified to report for medical examination and those who are physically fit are notified to report for enlistment.

Since the 1st of September of this year, when the first women's recruits were received, some 600 women have been enlisted in the Canadian Women's Auxiliary Corps and the Canadian Women's Auxiliary Air Force. As the facilities for the proper housing of the women personnel are carried to completion by the defence departments, larger numbers of women will be notified to report for enlistment. The response of the women of Canada to the appeal for volunteers has been magnificent. Up to the present time approximately 16,000 women have written to the department. They have been given the necessary information with regard to enlistment and have received the necessary application forms, and we have in the department over 5,000 applications from women who are being accepted for service later on. I should state that included in this number is a very considerable number of women from the United States who have

indicated their desire to serve with their Canadian sisters in these auxiliary services. In order to build a large reserve of physically fit and qualified women volunteers, plans towards the intensification of recruiting are now being worked out. With the exception of a very few direct entry officers appointed by the armed forces concerned, all promotions to non-commissioned officer or officer rank will be made from the ranks by the defence department concerned.

I should like to pay tribute to the many women's volunteer organizations throughout Canada which have in a commendable and patriotic spirit trained women with a view to fitting them for more active participation in the war effort of this country. The women of Canada are playing an increasingly important part in the war effort. For the first time in the history of this country with the exception of the women in the nursing services, the women of Canada are taking their place side by side with the men. But this is not the full extent of the contribution which the women of Canada are making to our war effort. By the thousands Canadian women are working in armament and munitions plants and in first-aid classes and are contributing in innumerable other ways to the cause of victory.

There is one other function of the mobilization division to which I should like to make passing reference. The prisoners of war information bureau of the Department of National War Services gives information to next of kin concerning Canadian sailors, soldiers and airmen who have fallen into the hands of the enemy, Canadian merchant seamen who have been taken prisoner of war and Canadian citizens who are interned in enemy or enemy occupied countries. After it has been definitely ascertained that a Canadian has become a prisoner of war and the next of kin has been notified by the service to which he belongs or, in the case of a merchant seaman, by the ship on which he was employed, the case is turned over to the prisoners of war information bureau. It is the duty of this bureau to keep the next of kin advised on all matters pertaining to these prisoners of war and internees. Instructions covering all the regulations established under the international convention relative to prisoners of war are sent to the next of kin, and they are given information as to how to communicate with the prisoner, how to forward parcels and what such parcels may contain.

Recently the government asked the Department of National War Services to undertake an additional function. Canada will send to the aid of Britain Canadian fire fighters for

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service in Britain. In this way Canada will once again answer the call for assistance and will send civilian fire fighters to assist in the protection of the lives and property of those persons in Britain who are so barbarously being attacked from the air. The chief of the new unit which will consist in the first place of approximately 400 men has been appointed, Mr. D. A. Boulden, chief of the Winnipeg fire department. The work of organizing the corps is progressing, and it is hoped that this corps may be in a position to render assistance to Great Britain in a very short period of time.

If I may now pass from this division to that of the division of public information, I should like to say a few words with regard to this important function which has been assigned to my department. I can say this with regard to the bureau of public information, that with the exception of the stage, it now operates in every known field for the distribution of news and informative material on the Canadian war effort and has done so since the start of the fiscal year. I do not intend to detain the committee with a great volume of statistical matter with regard to the number of releases, the number of items of literature that are put out by the bureau; but I should like to say just a few words with regard to the manner in which the bureau functions and the activities of the various branches of the bureau.

In addition to the material which the bureau produces itself, it also acts as a distribution centre for news material produced by the three departments of national defence, the Department of Munitions and Supply, the War-time Prices and Trade Board, and the Department of National War Services. The mailing list includes every daily and every important weekly newspaper in Canada, and, for public information material, that is material which is prepared by the bureau itself, about 400 daily and weekly newspapers in the United States. All of the United States newspapers to which I have referred have especially requested this material.

The French branch does not concern itself with any activities in the United States, but otherwise it operates in the same way as the English one.

One of the important activities of the bureau lies in the photographic field. The bureau maintains its own photograph branch with two staff photographers. It also acts as a distributing organization for the air force, the army and the navy; but, as their photographic services have not been particularly active in the period under review, that is since the end of the last fiscal year, about 90 per cent of the

work is initiated and carried out by the bureau of public information. It sends these photographic prints to Canadian papers and Canadian syndicates, to United States papers and United States syndicates, to other parts of the empire, to publications other than newspapers and syndicates, and sends a considerable number for window and other display services. In the period that I have mentioned there was a total distribution of photographic prints of over 45,000.

In addition to the photographic prints, the photographic branch also looks after the production and distribution of mats which are sent to the daily and weekly newspapers. An exclusive service is provided for the weekly newspapers, this being the first time that the weekly newspapers of Canada have been so treated, and the weekly newspapers have on many occasions expressed their appreciation of the service thus rendered.

Since August of this year a weekly mat service has been distributed in the United States This service is sent only to those newspapers which ask for it; and the total has now reached over 2,000 small weeklies and large dailies per week.

The bureau of public information also operates in the motion-picture field, and I shall have much pleasure later on in the course of my remarks to say something about the magnificent performance of the national film board and the relationship between the national film board and the bureau of information.

The bureau of information also operates in the closest cooperation with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

The public information Sunday night programme, "Carry On, Canada!" is now in the twentieth consecutive month of its career, and recent surveys have indicated that it still holds, if not the top-ranking position, very close to the top-ranking position among all commercial or non-commercial radio features originating in Canada. The bureau works in the closest possible manner with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in the production of this feature, providing many of the ideas and much of the basic material, and steps are now under way for the further strengthening and improvement of that feature.

In April, the radio feature "Canadians All" was still on the air, and continued until the middle of May, attracting a wide audience and much favourable comment.

A French section is on the air with the radio feature "1'Histoire en Marche", which is a sort of French version of "Carry On, Canada!" It also has several features in the process of organization.

The War-War Services-Mr. Thorson

Then I should like to say a few words about the library which exists in the bureau of information. I think I' may safely say that the bureau of public information maintains what is undoubtedly the best war library in Canada based upon topical information. Most of the material is secured from newspapers and magazines, although a number of important books on war subjects are also on its shelves. A small staff of readers scans fifty Canadian fifteen United States and seven British daily newspapers a week, and 123 Canadian and ten United States weekly papers a week. They mark material which they consider of interest, and these items are then clipped. The approximate number of clippings filed each month is over 3,000. These are filed by fully qualified librarians in accordance with library procedure and are instantly available on very short demand. Approximately 260 periodicals, weekly, monthly and quarterly., are read and indexed each month. The value of the library branch of the bureau of public information is becoming more and more widely known, and no day passes without its visitors and frequent requests for data.

In addition to the members of the bureau, who, of course, make an extensive use of the library, members of parliament are using it; so are the high commissioners with offices in Canada, Washington and London; consulates in Canada; libraries and universities in Canada, the United Kingdom and the United States; schools and study groups; news writers and editors. The library can, I am sure, be of very great service to anyone who wishes to obtain material on any subject affecting the war, because, in addition to the factual material which is on the files, the library is also in the possession of regular source material on almost any subject related to the war.

I am happy to be able to say that there is the utmost cooperation between the bureau of public information and other publicity branches of the various departments which have such publicity branches. Members of the bureau attend all meetings of the recruiting committee of the Department of National Defence, and I think I may say that they have contributed valuable service to that committee, not only in an advisory capacity but also in the actual carrying out of some of the activities. Similar assistance is also being rendered to the other war departments of the government. The office has cooperated in the closest possible manner with the Department of National Defence and the Department of Munitions and Supply in respect of various activities of those departments.

When I took over the functions which have now been assigned to me, I saw the terms in the statute relating to the coordination of the existing public information services of the government. I also had before me the experience of other ministries of information in attempting to bring together into one department the publicity branches of all other departments. There had already been set up in many of the departments of the government publicity branches that were doing most excellent work, and I came to the conclusion that it would be both unwise and undesirable to attempt to bring all the publicity branches of all the departments into one department under one head.

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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Is the bureau of public information attempting to edit any of the material that comes from these other publicity sources, or does it pass out such material irrespective?

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LIB

Joseph Thorarinn Thorson (Minister of National War Services)

Liberal

Mr. THORSON:

In respect of its functions as a distributor for the departments of national defence, of munitions and supply, and the other departments I mentioned a moment ago, it acts only as a distribution agency and does not in any way reedit the news releases that come from the departments. Instead of seeking, therefore, to bring all the publicity branches of all departments of the government into one department, we set upon a different course-that of establishing an interdepartmental committee composed of representatives of the various publicity branches of all the departments ofgovernment. The chairman of this interdepartmental committee is one of my deputy ministers, Hon. T. C. Davis. Included inthis committee, in addition to the representatives of the bureau of public information, are representatives of the three branches of national defence, of the Department ofMunitions and Supply, of the Department of Labour, of the Wartime Prices and Trade Board, of the Bank of Canada, of the Foreign Exchange Control Board, of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, of the National Film Board and of the Department of

External Affairs. Other departments are invited to send representatives to this committee whenever subjects of interest to their own departments are to be discussed. The committee sits once a week for the purpose of determining how best the various publicity branches of all the departments of the government may cooperate to the one end, namely, the furtherance of the war effort of Canada and the accomplishment of the objective of this department, that is to say, to bring the people of Canada and the war effort of the nation as close to one another as possible.

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I believe in this cooperative attitude to the various publicity branches of the departments of the government, rather than in the coordinating attitude, if one means by that the attempt to bring all the publicity branches of the government into one channel. Indeed, I am of the opinion that it would be wise and in the public interest that in every department of the government which has any great impact upon the public there should be a publicity or public relations branch. The need for proper public relations between the departments of the government and the people, is, I think, of paramount importance; indeed, I believe that a proper sense of public relationship is an essential element of democratic government.

Our literature distribution is based upon actual demand from the public; that is to say, we do not send out large quantities of unsolicited printed matter. Roughly speaking it can be said, that all literature sent out by our office is sent because it is asked for. During the past six months, from May 1 to October 31, we have distributed a total of over 13,000,000 pieces of printed matter, not including posters. This total is broken down into English 8,537,845, French 3,835,576, and bilingual 649,728.

I should like to call attention particularly to a leaflet that has been produced by the bureau of public information, entitled Canada's War Record. This is a leaflet with which all hon. members are familiar. It is full of facts about Canada's participation in the war. It was designed, primarily for presentation to persons crossing the United States boundary, to enable southbound Canadians to talk intelligently to their friends in that country about the war effort of Canada, and to inform northbound travellers about our war effort when such travellers enter Canada. This leaflet is revised and re-issued each month. In June our first experimental printing of it totalled 100,000 copies. Since then there has been an ever-increasing demand for this particular publication, and in October it was necessary for us to print 550,000. It appears likely that in a few months we shall be obliged to print about 1,000,000 copies per month to meet the demand that has arisen.

I may say in passing that the British ministry of information are interested in the distribution through south and central America of several million copies of the leaflet, printed in Spanish. I cannot give an exact statement as to how many copies of the leaflet are being distributed throughout the United States, but I think I may safely say that over a quarter of a million are being circulated there per month at the present time.

I might say more about one other activity of the bureau of public information, namely, that which has to do with the publication of posters. We are making very considerable progress in that regard. While there has been a great deal of progress in the activities of the bureau of public information, I for one am not entirely satisfied that we have gone as far as it is possible to go. In the field of public information it is rarely possible, if indeed it ever is, to go as far as it is desirable to go. However, we have in mind the establishment of other branches of the bureau, one of which will deal with the people of Canada who speak languages other than English or French. We have in mind also the establishment of a speakers' branch of the bureau of public information.

The subject of the activities of the bureau or of the government, in the matter of public information in the United States has received a great deal of attention from the administration, but I cannot add to what the Prime Minister has said, that the method of giving additional information to the United States with regard to the war effort of Canada is under careful consideration. In respect of the activities of the bureau of public information, I should like to pay a tribute to Mr. Lash and to his associates for their devotion to duty, their unremitting efforts, and their very considerable success in the promotion of public information.

I said yesterday that the object of the bureau of information was to bring the war effort of Canada as close to the people, and the people as close to the war effort, as possible. I realize the difficulties involved. I realize, too, that ministries of information have exceedingly difficult tasks imposed upon them. I have admitted that I am not fully satisfied with the steps that have been taken; but I can say that a great deal of progress has been made and I am confident that a great deal more progress can and will be made. In the bureau we now have a staff of able men and women, for whose efforts I am very grateful. I can further say, in a general way, that while the task in connection with public information is a difficult one, it is likewise an interesting one. There is a challenge in the difficulty itself. I have not in the past shrunk from challenges when my heart was in a cause. My heart is in this cause, and I shall not shrink from the challenge that presents itself in this particular field.

Now I shall deal somewhat briefly with other functions related to the matter of public information.

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Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Before the minister leaves this topic, surely he intends to

The War-War Services-Mr. Thorson

deal with the startling statement of the director which I read into the record yesterday. I want an answer to that challenge; I want to know how this department is "entoiled in the meshes of the red tape of an archaic system of government." There is a challenge to the minister which he must meet, and not with platitudes.

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LIB

Joseph Thorarinn Thorson (Minister of National War Services)

Liberal

Mr. THORSON:

It might also be well if the leader of the opposition would quote the whole of the statement.

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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I had not seen the whole statement up to the time of preparing my address.

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LIB

Joseph Thorarinn Thorson (Minister of National War Services)

Liberal

Mr. THORSON:

This is what Mr. Lash said:

I could talk to you about the work of my office, but to me that is a somewhat difficult subject. Public information has done some useful things but, like a number of other war departments, it is so entoiled in the meshes of the red tape of an archaic system of government that the things it has been able to do are not, in the opinion of those of us who work there, as important as the things it might have been doing, and which-

This is what the leader of the opposition did not mention:

-we hope we still may be able to do.

This is simply the statement of a man who has come into the public service, expressing some irritation over some of the necessary, essential controls. If the whole speech is read in its totality, it is simply the expression of a man who is intensely keen to do everything possible and who realizes the impossibility of doing everything at once. For instance, he finds himself confronted with the necessity of building up a staff, which perhaps he cannot build up as quickly as personally he would like to do; yet he has the hope that the job may be done, and the determination that the job will be done.

Since its inception the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation has carried on an important activity. When I assumed supervision over the broadcasting aspects of the corporation I attempted to enunciate certain general and fundamental principles; and I pledged myself then, as I do now, to the maintenance of the integrity of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation as an independent corporation and a great national instrument. I hope to defend it to the utmost of my ability against its enemies, if it has any. In its programme department the broadcasting corporation has continued to seek an expansion of war effort features, on the one hand commentaries and special broadcasts, and on the other hand the development of new entertainment ideas. As an example of growing interest I may mention

the fact that following the end of the first series of "We Have Been There" talks, which featured personal impressions given by competent observers fresh from visits to the United Kingdom, nearly fifteen thousand paid requests for copies of the talks were received at the offices of the corporation. Notwithstanding the fact that these programmes were carried only in Canada, requests for copies of this booklet also were received from most of the states of the union. This fact alone, without taking into consideration the programmes carried on behalf of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation by the various United States networks, is evidence that the story of Canada's war effort is reaching at least a part of the population to the south of us.

I should point out that the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation does not function as a news-gathering agency. It is not responsible for the gathering of news; it relies upon authorized news agency dispatches for the preparation of the bulletins.

In the United Kingdom the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation's overseas unit, which now has a staff of six, plays an ever-increasing part in maintaining the link between Canadians at home and overseas. A steady weekly flow of programmes is transmitted between Canada and the old country through the medium of short wave relay and recordings. Regular news bulletins, news features and important declarations are transmitted from Great Britain, recorded and distributed by the broadcasting corporation's receiving station near Ottawa, and then broadcast over a nation-wide network, as well as over some stations in the United States.

Contemplated Canadian Broadcasting Corporation programmes include a series entitled "Brothers in Arms," which will tell the stories of nationals of occupied countries who have fought their way out from under the nazi yoke to arrive in Canada and train with the armies of freedom.

Generally I may say that the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation plays an increasingly important part in furthering the war effort of the country, and plans are under way for further cooperation between the broadcasting corporation and the bureau of public information.

Now I should like to say something about the national film board, and I speak of the activities of this board with great joy and pride. The activities of the board are now spreading over almost all the world that is not under nazi domination.

Perhaps the outstanding work that the board is doing in the production of films is being done for the director of public information, under the now well-known film series called

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The War-War Services-Mr. Thorson

"Canada Carries On." These films which deal with the broader aspects of Canada's war activity come out once a month. They circulate in French and English versions to about nine hundred theatres in this country. The Canadian audience for each film is estimated at approximate!}' 2,500,000 people. I believe I may quite properly say of the "Canada Carries On" films that they are noted for their dramatic quality not only in Canada but in the wider film industry outside Canada. Arrangements have recently been completed which will ensure their theatre circulation in most of the countries of the world free from nazi domination.

May I give a brief indication of the manner in which the distribution of these films has proceeded. I have told the committee that the films appear in approximately nine hundred theatres in Canada. They are contracted for by the theatres, which are indeed glad to have them, by reason of their quality. Lavender prints from which new negatives and other prints may be taken are sent to the news reels in New York, the Twentieth Century Fox in Australia, the Ministry of Information in the United Kingdom and the High Commissioner for Canada in the Union of South Africa.

The "Canada Carries On" series is distributed in Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands East Indies, and the Straits Settlements through the Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation. They also go to Thailand and India. Some seven hundred to eight hundred theatres exhibit these films in Australia and New Zealand. Figures for the other areas in Australasia are not available at the moment, but a recent report indicates that between forty and fifty -theatres exhibit these films in Thailand.

The High Commissioner for Canada in the Union of South Africa has arranged for theatrical distribution of the films in the "Canada Carries On" series through Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, Twentieth Century Fox and The American Consolidated Theatres. These comprise all the major theatres in south Africa.

In the British West Indies, Columbia Pictures of New York distribute the "Canada Carries On" series commercially throughout the theatres of the British West Indies.

In the United Kingdom the "Canada Carries On" series was first distributed through Paramount Pictures. It reached several hundred theatres. Distribution of national film board war productions in the United Kingdom is now in the hands of the British Ministry of Information, and we have not received complete reports from them. The government film commissioner has lately arranged for the

United Artists to distribute one of the recent films, "The Battle of Oil," in the United Kingdom.

In the United States the national film board has not undertaken extensive commercial distribution, but several issues of the "Canada Carries On" series have been widely shown in news-reel theatres from coast to coast in such cities as New York, Cleveland, Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles and other places.

I believe I can say generally that the distribution of this series is proceeding in a satisfactory manner in many parts of the world. These films have ranged in subject matter from descriptions of life in the Canadian forces, such as the pictures, "Heroes of the Atlantic" and "Soldiers All" to descriptions of Ottawa office workers and Winnipeg volunteer women's services, and the vital war contribution of Canada's miners, as in the pictures "A Tale of Two Cities" and "The Strategy of Metals." They have ranged from an account of Canada's religious and racial tolerance, in the picture "Peoples of Canada," to the strategy of the battle of Britain, the war work of the scientists, and the significance of the world's struggle for oil. "Churchill's Island," for example, "The Battle of Britain" and "The Battle for Oil" are illustrative of what I have said.

Perhaps the most remarkable film picture ever taken is that of "Churchill's Island", for it actually depicts German gunners firing their guns, and show's German airmen taking off. These pictures were actually taken by Germans themselves, then captured and incorporated in the thrilling picture known as "Churchill's Island".

I believe Canada is very fortunate in having as commissioner of the national film board a man of such genius in the film field as Mr. John Grierson. In addition to its activities in this field the board carries on other activities for many other departments of government. They have produced numerous films, trailers and the like in support of the campaigns for recruits, war loans, war savings, salvage, oil conservation, and even the cheerful payment of income tax.

The board is also active in the promotion of tourist activity.

It has been an important part of our work in the board to command large theatre audiences for films w'hich describe the Canadian war effort, and stimulate civic cooperation. The national film board, however, regards it as equally important to bring this film service to the rural communities of Canada, so many of which are out of touch with the theatres. Working in cooperation with the departments of education of the provinces, the national film society, and vari-

The War-War Services-Mr. Thorson

ous groups within the film industry itself, the non-theatrical circulation of the national film board productions has been greatly extended, and we now have repositories of our government motion-picture films in all parts of the country, so that they are easily available to educational, civic, agricultural and other interested groups. It has been a special satisfaction to me to note that our films have been particularly useful in the teaching of citizenship in both schools and training camps.

I wish the time at my disposal permitted a wider treatment of this extremely interesting activity which has been placed in my charge, but I should like to say that it is the policy of the board to make all its films in both French and English versions. In certain cases, however, films are produced in French alone, on account of the specialized interest of the theme. For example, owing to the lack of French news reels we issue monthly a news reel produced under the title of "Les Actuali-tes Canadiennes". This, however, does not exhaust the various linguistic responsibilities of the board. For our south American circulation we are obliged to make Spanish and Portuguese versions; for south Africa we have undertaken to make an Afrikaans version, and in the circulation afforded to some of our films through the British Ministry of Information we are involved in other languages still.

I hesitate to interject a personal note, but it was my great pleasure to speak the commentary in Icelandic for one of the films produced by the Canadian National Film Board and subsequently sent by the government of Canada to the government of Iceland. This film was entitled "Iceland on the Prairies". We are gradually getting together many films of the same kind depicting the life of various racial groups which recognize this country as their own. My work as chairman of the national film board has brought me into a new and unaccustomed field, but I must confess that it has had special forms of attraction. I am satisfied with the progress that has been made and am proud of the fact that we have such an organization in existence in this country at this time.

I am speaking at greater length than I thought I would, but I should like to say a few words about another division of my department, the one having to do with war charities. This division exercises important functions in respect of the supervision of war charities. These war charities occupy an important part in the war effort of this country because they afford an outlet to thousands of men and women in Canada who are anxious to make some contribution to the war effort of this country. Early in the

activities in this department the administration of the War Charities Act was assigned to this department. The department seeks to exercise the greatest possible care so that only bona fide funds may be registered. All war charities must be registered. We seek also to avoid any attempt at commercialization of war charities and to coordinate the various activities of the many war charities that now exist in this country.

The object of the War Charities Act is to provide a measure of control and regulation over the voluntary efforts of organizations throughout Canada who may desire to raise funds for war charitable purposes. A war charity fund is defined in the act as "any fund having for its objects or among its objects any purpose, charitable or otherwise, arising out of or connected with the war". Under the act any organization which makes an appeal to the public for donations or subscriptions in money or in kind for any war charity fund or which attempts to do so by sponsoring a bazaar or any other form of entertainment for that purpose must be registered.

Since the act was assented to on September 13, 1939, and up to October 29, 1941, a total of 1,312 central funds have been registered. In addition, 821 branch funds have been registered under certain central funds, which makes a grand total of 2,133 war charities funds registered in this manner. During this period the registrations of some 15 funds were cancelled by the administrator, while the cancellation of 49 registrations was requested by the funds themselves. The registrations of 31 central funds have been cancelled because they are now operating as branches of registered funds. This leaves a net total of 1,217 central funds, 852 branch funds, or a grand total of 2,069 war charities operating in Canada at the present time.

I cannot give an exact statement of the amounts of money that have been raised by these various war charities, but I can make an approximate statement. About $27,000,000 was reported from September, 1939, to March 31, 1941. Of course this includes the Canadian Red Cross Society appeal of 1940 and the Canadian war services fund drive of March, 1941. With regard to the subject of war charities generally, may I say that the department feels that the whole field of war charities has now been fairly well covered and that it should not be necessary for new organizations to be constantly brought into the field. I would suggest that a consolidation of effort rather than an expansion in the number of funds should be sought. The division of war charities will seek to carry this principle into

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effect and an effort will be made to prevent any rapid increase in the number of organizations to be registered under the act.

I would point out that under the provisions of the act it is necessary for all funds to furnish an audited financial statement of their receipts and expenditures as at March 31 of each year. This year financial statements will be required as at December 31.

In the course of the administration of the War Charities Act it has been found necessary to make an effort to ensure that a larger percentage of the money contributed by the people for war charities should actually reach the war charities and not be eaten up by organizational or other expenditures. Accordingly a new regulation, No. 15, was promulgated recently. This provides as follows:

No fund registered under the War Charities Act, 1939, shall undertake any special .project such as a carnival, bazaar, show, exhibition or other entertainment unless the estimated cost of such special project shall not exceed 25 per cent of the anticipated gross proceeds, and registration shall not be granted to any fund which proposes to undertake any such special project except subject to the condition that the estimated cost of any such project shall not exceed 25 per cent of the anticipated gross proceeds.

The purpose of this regulation, is to ensure that at least seventy-five per cent of all money contributed for war charities shall actually reach the war charities.

It has also been found that the bringing in of talent from outside Canada is a costly way of raising funds for war charities. Another regulation, No. 16, has, therefore, been enacted, providing as follows:

A registered fund which plans to engage the services of entertainment talent from outside Canada must first secure the permission of the minister.

These regulations were passed for the purpose of ensuring that the greatest portion of every dollar that the people of Canada contribute to war charities shall actually go to the war charities.

Another important function has been assigned to the war charities division. It is related to the one I have just discussed, but it is more closely concerned with the supervision of the great national organizations such as the great auxiliary war services organizations, the Canadian Red Cross Society, the Independent Order of the Daughters of the Empire, the Navy League of Canada, and other such national organizations.

All of these are war charities; to the department has been assigned the important function of exercising budgetary supervision in

respect of the amounts for which they' wish to make a national appeal. There are five of these national auxiliary war service organizations, having their sponsorship in such organizations as the Canadian Legion, the Knights of Columbus, the Salvation Army, the Young Men's Christian Association and the Young Women's Christian Association. These national organizations are concerned with the supplying of auxiliary services to Canadian troops both at home and abroad. They operate in their activities under the direction of the director of auxiliary services in the defence department. Last spring all five of these national organizations came into one united joint drive for funds, together with the Independent Order of the Daughters of the Empire in respect of the branches of that order in the four western provinces. The objective which the joint drive had in mind was So,500,000. The people of Canada contributed 37,000,000. Last year the Canadian Red Cross Society conducted a separate drive. Its objective was $5,000,000, and the Canadian public contributed $6,000,000.

Last year an effort was made to bring about a united drive in which the national auxiliary war service organizations and the Canadian Red Cross society should combine. The efforts that were made to bring about such a joint drive failed for a variety of reasons. I am very glad to be able to say that now, in the next national drive, the national auxiliary war services organizations that I have mentioned, and the Canadian Red Cross Society will join in one national appeal in the spring of 1942 at a date to be announced later. I am also glad to be able to say that the Navy League of Canada, which has been doing such excellent service in the interests of the men of the sea, will also join in this national drive. Other applications for leave to join in this drive are under consideration.

The government has been seeking to reduce the number of national appeals to the Canadian public for funds, and to coordinate and systematize these national drives. The general policy of the government is this, that the fall of the year should be reserved for drives of a peace-time nature, such as community chest drives and appeals of other public welfare organizations of a similar nature; for the government realizes the necessity of maintaining the ordinary everyday charitable activities of the communities of Canada. Then it is proposed that the spring shall be reserved for all the national war service organizations, including organizations which supply auxiliary services to our troops, the Canadian Red Cross society and other national organizations. This

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will leave the rest of the year clear for the necessary government financing by way of campaigns for war savings certificates and war loans.

Next year, in the spring, the joint drive of which I have been speaking will probably make an appeal to the Canadian public for a large sum of money, from seventeen to twenty million dollars. It is therefore essential that there should be as close a supervision as possible over the budgets of these organizations, for the sum of money which I have indicated is a very large one. But just as no appeal which has ever been made to the Canadian public has failed, so I am confident that the Canadian people will respond to this appeal that will be made to them in the spring in order that the magnificent services performed by these organizations may be carried on with full success. .

In December of last year, under order in council P.C. 7273, dated December 11, 1940, an advisory board was established by the Department of National War Services entitled the National War Charities Funds Advisory board, under the chairmanship of Mr. C. L. Burton. This board deals in the first instance with all applications for leave to conduct a national drive. The board functions only in an advisory capacity. It is through the operations of this advisory board that the principles of budgetary control and supervision of expenditures are applied. AH the funds that are contributed- by the public of Canada in respect of the national auxiliary service organizations go into the custody of one central organization called the Canadian War Services Fund Incorporated. No moneys are paid out of this fund except on the direction of the minister. The minister acts on the recommendation, if he approves it, of the advisory board of which I have spoken.

I have attempted to stress again and again the importance of the strictest budgetary supervision and the strictest control of expenditures. It is not the wish of this department to curtail activities. We do not exercise budgetary control or supervision of expenditures with a view to curtailing services -not at all. We know that the public contributes all of this necessary money and that if it is not obtained from the public the services cannot be performed at all. Therefore I like to think of this exercise of budgetary supervision and1 control of expenditures as being in aid of the objectives of these organizations and helpful to them. The public is entitled to know when an appeal is made to it for funds that there has been a strict scrutiny of the budgets, that the objectives are worth while, and that there will be the

most careful check on expenditures. I have indicated to the committee the manner in which we are trying to give that assurance to the public. All the funds contributed by the public go into the fund. They are paid out only on the direction of the minister, and the minister has the benefit of the advice of the advisory board which I have mentioned, and that advisory board exercises careful budgetary supervision over the budgets presented by the various organizations before they go into the drive. The objective of the drive is fixed after the budgets have been carefully supervised in this manner. Then the expenditures are made only in the manner that I have indicated. If the public coptri-butes more than the objective of the drive, as was the case on the occasion of the last drive, then the various organizations who participate in the drive submit supplementary budgets to the advisory board; these supplementary budgets are checked with care and recommendations made to the minister to write to the central fund advising that moneys may be released from the fund.

Speaking generally with regard to the organization of war charities, while a good deal remains to be done in the matter of coordination of war charities, I may fairly report that satisfactory progress has been made.

With regard to one other division of my department, the division of women's voluntary services, I stated yesterday that I was very happy indeed to be able to announce the creation of this new division. I was glad to be able to announce it by reason of the increasing participation of the women of Canada in the war effort of our country. I have indicated to the committee the splendid manner in which the women of Canada have volunteered for active service in the Canadian Women's Auxiliary Corps and in the Canadian Women's Auxiliary Air Force side by side with their brothers in arms. I have indicated also the magnificent contribution that is being made in everincreasing degree by the women of Canada in the war factories, the munitions plants, and the war industries of Canada generally. But the women who serve in the armed forces and who work by the thousands in munitions plants and war factories are not the only women who are doing war service in Canada. The women who keep the heart of the nation sound by doing their daily tasks in the homes and in the communities are doing war service of the highest possible order. It is essential in time of war, even more so than in peace time, that the life of the community should be maintained, that the aged and the needy should

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be assisted, that the dependents of our fighting men should be comforted in time of need and that the men themselves should be encouraged and remembered. It also is essential that the great national war auxiliary services organization, and such great national organizations as the Canadian Red Cross society and other war charities, should be fully supported. The women can organize in a variety of ways; two plans were at first suggested to me: one, that representatives of the great women's organizations of Canada should be asked to assemble in Canada in a conference with a view to building a great women's organization for coordination purposes. That plan was discarded. The great national women's organizations of Canada are doing excellent sendee in their own respective fields. Another plan is being adopted in the place of the one that I have mentioned. It is in the communities of Canada that the women of Canada will be doing their work. We have therefore felt that we should take steps to promote the organization by the women themselves of women's organizations on the basis of what I shall call community solidarity. The women in their own communities can organize and coordinate their activities on the basis of this community solidarity. They can form pools of volunteer workers in their own communities for all of the purposes of the communities and for the purposes of the nation as well. In that way, I suggest, they can best mobilize their efforts in the maintenance of the morale of our country; for I feel this, that if the needs of the community are met as only the womenfolk can meet them, the heart of the nation will be kept sound. Many of these tasks performed by the women of Canada are dull and prosaic. There is not a vestige of glamour attached to them, and no publicity. Yet they are necessary tasks in time of peace; they are vital when the nation is at war. Our women in this respect are the guardians of the morale of the nation. It is my hope that this new division will be of considerable assistance in that regard.

_ I shall deal only very briefly with the remaining division which has been assigned to my department-the salvage division. The origin of this division lay in the fact that there was a large salvage movement in Great Britain and in other parts of the commonwealth, and also in the fact that hundreds of Canadians were writing to the various departments of the government suggesting that much might be done to assist the war effort by the collection of salvage. With that in mind, the officials in the Department of National War Services suggested a salvage campaign. While at that

time there did not appear to be any great apparent shortage of material, the first thought of the campaign was to further the spirit of thrift in the minds of our people and provide an outlet for the patriotic desire of many people to assist in the war effort. It was also anticipated that, as the war industries increased their demands, there would be an evergrowing demand for raw materials, making the collection of salvage absolutely necessary. As a result of the interest and cooperation of the members of the house and officers of public and service organizations, the division has succeeded in moulding public interest in the salvage campaign to such an extent that the division is now in communication with 2,227 voluntary salvage corps. The main object of the campaign was to promote salvage through the organization of voluntary salvage corps operating in the various communities. The salvage division of my department is in constant communication with these organizations, seeking to advise them as to the types of material for which there is a demand, the methods of collection, and available markets. Where it is necessary, these salvage organizations are required to register under the War Charities Act.

There has been a great deal of activity and interest in the salvage campaign, and questions have been raised as to the success of it. May I say in a general way that in some localities the campaign, has been an outstanding success; in other localities the success has been only moderate, while in still others there has been very little success. There have been many difficulties in the way, difficulties arising out of the collection and disposition of the salvage, difficulties of freight and transportation. The division has been operating under a comparatively small staff, but it has been felt that its activities should now be increased, for it is now evident that the collection of salvage is increasingly necessary. Consumer and material controllers of the Department of Munitions and Supply and the material administrators under the war-time prices and trade board have indicated to my department the urgent necessity of procuring increasing quantities of various classes of material, and have requested us to intensify the campaign for its collection.

The division is now working in close cooperation with the controllers of the Department of Munitions and Supply, the material administrators of the war-time prices and trade board, the department of Trade and Commerce, the export licence control board and the foreign exchange control board. In order to regulate the distribution of steel, iron and other metals, bones and paper,

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products of essential war industries, these materials are now placed under export control, and the salvage office is required to advise the controllers as to quantities of material made available by voluntary salvage organizations, and the quantities available in industry. For the purpose of stimulating interest in the salvage campaign, and in order to meet the views of those who are concerned with the salvage, collection and disposal of secondary raw materials, and to ensure that this shall be done as efficiently as possible, authority has recently been granted for the appointment of field organizers and inspectors. It will be the duty of these officers to promote the organization of new voluntary salvage corps where they do not exist, and to stimulate the activities of those that are at present operating; also to bring about the utmost cooperation between persons gathering salvage, those collecting it and bringing it to central stations, and those disposing of it, so that the activity may be as useful as possible.

I hope that many of the difficulties which we have found in the course of launching this campaign will be overcome. I do not know that the committee will be interested at this stage in the results, but I might observe that through two hundred salvage organizations the salvage collected and disposed of represented a total value of $254,982, or an average of $1,270 each. This money is used as a direct contribution to war charities of one kind and another.

During September of this year the department inaugurated a special drive for aluminum, which was sponsored by the Canadian Red Cross society, and although full reports are not yet available, information to hand would indicate that this drive will result in the Red Cross receiving approximately $75,000. The facts, however, with regard to this phase of the department will be available very shortly.

I shall say only a few words with regard to the Canadian travel bureau. The importance of the. Canadian travel bureau lies in the fact that through the coming of tourists from the United States to Canada we are able to obtain essential United States exchange, which we must use to such a great extent in the financing of our purchases in connection with our war effort in that country. Since the outbreak of war, the development of Canada's travel industry has assumed a much greater importance to the successful operation of our war-time economy. The building up of United States exchange within our country has enabled increased purchases to be made

of vital war supplies from the United States, and that has naturally been one of the major efforts of the government. The flow of tourist travel to Canada is now one of the chief factors in acquiring and conserving much-needed United States dollars.

In this connection it has been the policy of the bureau to seek to increase this flow by expanding and developing a promotional campaign for tourist traffic from the United States. The war has brought its difficulties. It has caused a change in the travel habits of people of the United States, just as it has done in the habits of the Canadian people. The foreign exchange control board, keenly desirous of holding our exchange position to the best possible advantage, found it absolutely essential to. prohibit Canadian pleasure travel in the United States. This regulation, essential as it was in the interests of the general economy of Canada, created some feeling in the United States, particularly in those parts that border on Canada. The regulation was misinterpreted and rumours were current, not perhaps so much this year as the year before, that United States citizens bringing money into Canada could not take any of it out. There were other activities of an adverse nature in the United States. In June of this year the necessary gasoline regulations were put into effect and these also caused considerable difficulty.

By and large, however, there has been a great improvement in the tourist industry in Canada this year. Despite the unusual problems that have confronted the travel industry of Canada, to which I have made reference, I think hon. members will be interested to learn that up to the end of September of this year our tourist traffic had increased and expanded in all parts of the dominion. Until June of this year the tourist figures were running behind those of a year ago; but in July this traffic showed a substantial increase. Up to the end of September 3,122,683 automobiles had crossed into Canada from the United States. In the month of July Canada had 2,585,041 tourist visitors; in August, 2,741,112 and in September, 1,304,467. In other words up to the end of September Canada had welcomed 11,492,811 tourist visitors, an increase of 286.825 tourists over the corresponding period in 1940. While these figures are encouraging I am free to state that I am not entirely satisfied with the Canadian travel bureau. A careful study is being made of the whole subject, and every effort will be made to bring about the improvements which I think are desirable.

Now, Mr. Chairman. I shall conclude an address which I find has become altogether

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too long, in spite of the fact that I have tried to compress it as much as possible while still endeavouring to give the house some outline of the activities of my department. I should like to say how deeply I have appreciated the loyal support I have received from my two distinguished deputy ministers, Major-General LaFleche and Hon. T. C. Davis, as well as from every member of the staff of my department. I should like also to express my appreciation of the kindness of hon. members on both sides of the house since the Prime Minister honoured me with this appointment, for which I thank him deeply. This support and this kindness have made my task very much easier than it would otherwise have been.

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LIB

James Layton Ralston (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Hon. J. L. RALSTON (Minister of National Defence):

Mr. Chairman, I dislike to begin

with an apology, but hon. members will understand that I have not had a great deal of opportunity to get together, at least in condensed form, the information which the committee might desire from me. Neither have I had an opportunity to consult my colleagues with regard to the matters which were discussed overseas. I am afraid the presentation I am about to make may be somewhat disjointed, but I shall endeavour to do my best to give information in which hon. gentlemen may be interested and, according to the arrangement made, to answer questions when the time comes to deal with the various subjects which will be brought up during the course of the statement.

May I say a word with regard to the army programme for 1941-42 which the Prime Minister and I announced early in the year. The highlights of that programme wTere the sending overseas during this year of a large number of corps troops and reinforcements; the sending overseas of an army tank brigade, which up to that time had not been even mobilized; the sending overseas of a third division, which had been mobilized and was in training, and the sending overseas of the armoured division, which at that time was mobilized but in a very preliminary stage of training. I am glad to say that, with the exception of the armoured division, that programme has been carried out. I obtained the figures just a short time ago, and I find that since March 11, when I last reported to the house, no less than 41,843 other ranks have gone overseas, together with 2,484 officers. So that at the present time we have overseas the first and second divisions; the third division, which went overseas in July; the army tank brigade, and thousands of corps troops and army troops, to which I want to refer with a little more particularity later on. We have in Canada the fifth armoured division,

which according to the programme is to go overseas before very long. We also have in Canada the fourth division, which was mobilized at the time I last spoke; and since that time authority has been given for the mobilization of the three brigade groups of a sixth division. In addition to that we have authorized, just lately, the mobilization of another five companies of the forestry corps, so that the Canadian forestry corps will consist of twenty-five companies when this additional authorization goes overseas. Then we have the coast defence artillery, on both the east and west coasts, together with a number of- battalions doing coast defence duty-that is to say, carrying out protective duties in cooperation with the artillery on both our coasts-and finally we have the troops in Newfoundland and the West Indies.

This sums up briefly the material side of the situation of the Canadian army at the present time. Apart from that there is the reserve army, which consists of something like 150,000 men just now.

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LIB

James Layton Ralston (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. RALSTON:

Yes, in Canada. That is the extent of the progress that has been made since I last reported to the house.

As part of the day's work, and not with any special errand in mind, I went overseas a few weeks ago together with the chief of the general staff, and Lieutenant-Colonel Currie, my executive assistant, and Lieutenant-Colonel Cameron, secretary to the chief of the general staff. If I were to outline the purposes of the visit I think I might say the first purpose was to see as much as I could of Canada's fighting forces in the old country; second, to consult with Lieutenant-General McNaughton and Major-General Montague regarding many matters of organization and administration, all of which took considerable time; third, to review with our officers and the war office the task of the army in the war and the part which the Canadian army could most usefully play; fourth, generally to be informed at first hand regarding conditions and developments, because as hon. members will understand, in making plans for the future with regard to Canada's contribution on sea, on land, in the air, and in the fields of munitions production and finance, it always helps to get as close to the situation as possible; fifth, and not least important, to repeat that rare experience, as I told the press in England, of meeting and talking with the citizens of the British Isles, those indomitable people who give to those of us from the western hemisphere who go there both an inspiration and a challenge by their courage and steadfastness.

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I am not to-day going to go into the lengthy discussions which we held over there. It was a great satisfaction to see the Canadian troops. I spent four days with them. The first day was with the holding units, the second day with the third division, the third day with the second division and the fourth day with the first division. I am sorry to say, however, that I was not able to see a great many of the personnel of the first division. That was a gala day for the first division, in that Her Majesty the Queen graciously presented, to the Saskatoon Light Infantry the colours of that battalion. A great day it was, indeed!

I am speaking at present to my hon. friends the leader of the opposition (Mr. Hanson), the hon. member for Yale (Mr. Stirling), and other colleagues who went with them, as well as some others who have been over there, and I know they will agree with me that all that has been said about Canadian troops is not too much. I speak with regard to their keenness, their alertness and their readiness to do whatever job may come their way, and as to their intentness not only in their training but also in those operational tasks they are carrying on. I saw them in a variety "of activities, not only in training but in actual operational activities as well.' My hon. friends know they are holding an important part of the line. At the time I visited one of the divisions, it had just taken over.

I saw ceremonial parades as well. I can say to the committee and to the people of the Dominion of Canada that the morale of the Canadian troops is good-and I say that without any reservation. I said that they are alert and that they are keen.-and they are. They have good, Canadian common sense. They know that we cannot defend the citadel-and we have been calling England the citadel of freedom.-without troops, and that, at the moment, their job is just where they are.

They were greatly bucked up, shall I say, by their participation in what has been called ''bumper" exercise. Those were tremendous exercises in which troops of the United Kingdom, imperial troops, as well as Canadian troops, took part.. It was an exercise which covered something like eight days in time. I am not sure whether or not it was in progress when my hon. friends were overseas. It was, however, a test of both the endurance of the men, the endurance of the vehicles and of equipment generally. There were many amusing stories-stories about generals who had been captured, and stories about platoons which had been cut off.

The chief lessons which were learned, and the outstanding points in connection with the

exercises were perhaps three in number. The first was the usefulness of the communications with which the army is equipped. When one understands that communication has to be maintained between vehicles in columns miles and miles long on the tortuous roads in England, when orders are constantly being changed, and those changed orders have to be communicated to the driver of each vehicle, he realizes that it is a test of both the army communications themselves, and the men who operate them.

It was a tremendous satisfaction to the officers with whom I talked to feel that those communications had stood the test, and that the men had stood the test under what were at that time abnormal circumstances. I believe the men, as a matter of fact, bivouacked for the whole eight nights. They travelled about four hundred miles altogether. Changed orders came from time to time. The column which had started for a particular point early in the morning might receive at ten o'clock in the morning verbal orders- they had no written orders-calling on them to go to some other point. That information had to be communicated all the way down the column, which stretched for miles and miles. Then, probably in another hour a dispatch rider would rush up and deliver another verbal order indicating a change in destination to some other point. Those were two of the factors, namely communications, and the ability to find their way about. The Canadian battalion and Canadian units reached the places to which they were directed.

The third factor was the test with regard to the maintenance of vehicles. I was going to say something about this later, but I might as -well mention it now. I do not know of any more important task in the modern army than the maintenance of vehicles. That wras illustrated beyond doubt in those exercises. The men learned perhaps more than in any other way how important it was for the driver mechanic, night after night, to go through the routine with his vehicle, to go over the number of operations laid down in the book for him, in order that he might be sure his vehicle would start in operations next day. The vehicles stood the test remarkably well. I am not so sure that the tanks did as well as the transport vehicles. Nevertheless, all that experience was to the good. From the imperial officers in command I heard the most glowing references to the part which the Canadians played in the exercises.

I found this, that the men of the Canadian corps-and I am not speaking of the "bumper" exercise, and not simply of the officers-those in the line, which is only about forty miles

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away from the enemy, were each of them fully aware of what their job was, and how they were to do it. Seeing the dispositions, it appeared absolutely clear on the ground, that they were prepared for whatever might come and that each individual man would see to it that the fort was held.

Barbed wires and guns are not the whole thing in connection with the defence of the island. They do not by any means tell the whole story. Those men with strong bodies, clear heads and hearts of oak realize their responsibilities, and I have not any doubt that Hitler would get a warm reception, should he attempt the invasion which has been threatened for so long.

May I say also that although I did not see the actual unit, I did see the officers in charge of the tunnelers, who have made such a record for themselves at Gibraltar, and who are operating in England as well, particularly in connection with aerodromes and tank traps. They also operate in connection with certain public services, where they are doing an extremely fine and important job to provide power for one of the most important manufacturing projects operating in the United Kingdom.

That is just a general appraisal of the Canadian corps and Canadian troops, as I saw it. Something has been said-I do not think there has been very much lately-with regard to the task of the Canadian corps. As I said a moment ago, they have common sense. They realize what the situation is. They realize, too, that if Hitler had invaded England in September, 1940, as was expected, they would have been in the thick of it. They realize, too, that if, instead of going into Russia after the invasion of Crete, Hitler had come to England, they again would have been in the middle of it. They realize, too, that at the present time their job is to buttress the defences of the British isles, and at the same time to train, to work, to prepare and to be ready for any job of any kind, anywhere, any time, for which they may be needed. They know that their task is to see to it that the enemy's plans are frustrated, and that Hitler is driven back.

I do not think any finer tribute could be paid than that which was paid by Mr. Churchill at the dinner tendered to the Prime Minister of Canada (Mr. Mackenzie King) by the Lord Mayor of London. On that occasion Mr. Churchill said:

You have seen your gallant Canadian corps and other troops who are here. We have felt very much for them that they have not yet had a chance of coming to close quarters with the enemy. It is not their fault; it is not our fault; but there they stand, and there they

have stood through the whole of the critical period of the last fifteen months at the very point where they would be the first to be hurled into a counter-stroke against an invader.

No greater service can be rendered to this country, no more important military duty can be performed by any troops in all the allies. It seems to me that although they may have felt envious that Australian, New Zealand and South African troops have been in action, the part they have played in bringing about the final result is second to none.

The war effort of Canada during this war, happily, has not so far required effusion of blood upon a large scale. But that effort, in men, in ships, aircraft, air training, in finance, in food, constitutes an element in the resistance of the British empire without which that resistance could not be successfully maintained.

Perhaps I should have mentioned that the boys were bucked up particularly by the Spitsbergen operation. As you know that was an operation of about a week and it took place after intensive training at a special coastal training area where the men were instructed in invasion tactics and beach assault as a prelude to the expedition. The purpose of that expedition is given in a dispatch which was sent us. It was to destroy existing stocks of coal, to paralyze mining facilities, to destroy radio and meteorological stations, and to evacuate Russian and Norwegian miners. These tasks were all accomplished with a minimum of dislocation and in record time. Naturally the troops were envied by their comrades when they came back from this expedition to within 750 miles of the north pole. That is with regard to my visit to the troops.

I had a number of discussions with Captain Margesson, the Secretary of State for War, with Sir John Dill, the chief of the general staff, with General Brooke, commander in chief of the home forces, and I should have said with the Prime Minister of Great Britain, Mr. Churchill, with Lord Cranborne, with Lord Beaverbrook and with others who had the particular information which we desired to get. One of the things I wanted to ascertain was in regard to a matter mentioned yesterday by the leader of the opposition (Mr. Hanson)-the views over there as to the role of the army in this war. There has been an idea that the army will play some sort of minor role, that this really is a navy and air force war. Let me say to you that from the views which were given to me it was made quite clear that the role of the army in this war is and will be no minor one. The navy and the air force have been and are bearing the shock and stress of battle, and words cannot adequately express the measure and the quality of their contribution. But there is no illusion that this war can be finished without an army to meet and, with the cooperation of ships and planes, eventually beat Hitler's land forces. The navy

The War-National Defence-Mr. Ralston

and the air force must keep the sea lanes open for men and supplies. They must slow up and retard invasion. The army must repel it. The navy and the air force must deal with the enemy by blockade and bombing. The army, supported by the other services, must eventually strike the decisive blow.

As in Jugoslavia, in Greece and in Crete, so to-day in Russia, it is Hitler's land forces whose clutches are reaching for Russia's throat. Hitler's drives have been to enslave people and to win territory, and the army, the land forces, have been his major instrument. France and Greece and Crete and Russia have all been overrun, and it is the army which must be called upon both for resistance and for effective counter-offensive when the time comes.

So that for a minute or two I want to speak of the activities of the army and with regard to recruiting for the army, to which the leader of the opposition referred yesterday. The army has a major role to perform, but in building up a Canadian army alongside the requirements of the navy and the heavy calls for the gigantic air training plan there was bound to be some difficulty. Owing to the pressing needs of the navy and air force the only restriction upon taking in man-power for these services has been the provision of physical equipment. Otherwise the sky has been the limit. We in Canada have put first things first, and no one questions the policy of giving the right of way to the requirements of the navy and air force. Those two services must build up quickly. The immediate necessities of both these services have made it impracticable for them to make any concessions to industry. That is to say, men have been taken on no matter what their trade and technical qualifications in civil life might be. This meant that the army and civilian needs divided up the remainder of the eligible men. The army has already made clear the policy which still prevails, that of giving leave to men who enlist if a board decides that they are for the time being essential to war industry.

Army enlistments called for in the recruiting campaign of last summer were forthcoming, and I think, and I said so at the time, that it represented a thumping answer by the young men of Canada to Hitler. The full returns showed over 34,000 enlisted and about 48,000 actually volunteered. This was in addition to the 15,500 who enlisted in the navy and air force. So that in all over 60,000 young men volunteered during that period to serve in the fighting forces of Canada. The house will recall that the campaign for the army was a special call, and, as I pointed out,

it was only a chapter in the story. The steady month to month requirements had to be met right through to the end of the book.

Civilian committees helped tremendously, but not unnaturally when the objective was reached there was bound to be some let down in activity. The assumption was that if we could enlist men at the rate of 12,000 or more per month in the campaign, there ought to be no difficulty in enlisting 7,000 or 8,000 under the influence of the momentum which had been generated. But there was a definite falling off. As the figures show, in the last four months, since the campaign, we have asked for 37,000 odd, and something over

24,000 have actually enlisted.

I do not want to make any excuses, but there were at least three major factors which had an effect upon that effort. First, there was a further and unexpected expansion in the air training plan. This arose out of discussions in England by my colleague, the Minister of National Defence for Air (Mr. Power). When he came home he found it necessary to indicate very definitely that there was a need for a further unlimited number of men in the air force. This need has been repeatedly emphasized, and an intensive and nation-wide effort has been made to recruit airmen. The result has been that since that call from the minister there have been no less than 35,000 enlistments in the air force.

Another factor was the rapid expansion in industry. I could not help thinking as I listened last evening to my colleague, the Minister of Munitions and Supply (Mr. Howe), tell of the peaks which were being reached in industrial production what an effect that must have had upon any campaign calling for men. The rapid expansion which my colleague so graphically described was bound to absorb a large number of men. I must say that there has been a gratifying recognition by many industrial executives of the needs of the army. In many instances readjustments have been made to release men for the services, and industrial executives have been slow in taking on men who are eligible for military service. But the pull of increasing war production has been a heavy one nevertheless.

A third factor which was bound to have its effect was the difficulty of convincing our young men, and in many cases their families as well, that more men were needed for the army. People could not understand why we had to keep on getting men. The assumption was that the reinforcements needed must be small because the casualties were confined to normal wastage and accidents causing medical unfitness. As I have already tried to explain,

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The War-National Defence-Mr. Ralston

that assumption is wholly unsound. There is a constant drain even in these quiet times, resulting from discharges for medical unfitness of men who cannot stand the strain of fast-moving, energy-consuming activity in training and operations. Unfortunately that drain will increase heavily when active operations begin.

Another drain upon enlisted man-power is the steady call for men to increase establishments and to form new units. I heard a good deal of that when I was overseas this time. We have experienced it already. The organization for modern war is constantly changing. The war office, from experience gained in fighting on the part of British and allied forces, have found that units need more personnel to do a certain job. They have changed the organization accordingly, and the Canadian army has changed with them. They have found too that new units are necessary to perform special tasks which have been done previously by the more or less standard formations. They have found that units formed to do a certain task could more usefully and effectively be used in other roles. In order to be more self-dependent the Canadian corps has found it necessary to ask for special units not contemplated even by the British establishments. Not a few of them were formed on the spot as the need arose, from reinforcements from the holding units in England. These wall eventually have to be replaced. This has required men in thousands and equipment as well. And so to meet our need of men for the army, men are required, first, to replace those discharged from time to time as unfit; second, to provide for new units or an increase in the establishment of existing units; and third, as reserves for battle casualties. These requirements go on ceaselessly month by month. I should like to impress that upon hon. members. I know that within this house and in the country there is some sort of idea that you do not need men because the army so far has done no fighting. But this increase in establishments is going on continually, also the formation of new units, and there is a continual drain by reason of medical unfitness. The reserves have to be kept up.

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NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

What is the monthly wastage in the Canadian active service force?

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November 6, 1941