May 27, 1941

LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

There were 12,786 discharged as medically unfit and considered for pension, of which number 6S7 were granted pensions. Those were disability applications. The next classification is for widows and parents; these are dependent pension rulings where death occurred and they total 329.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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NAT

Howard Charles Green

National Government

Mr. GREEN:

How many of those were

cases where the men served in Canada?

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

I do not believe I have that information, although I did place it on Hansard about two months ago.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Perhaps the minister will get it.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

Yes. Then, there were forty-three deaths prior to May 1, 1940. Twenty-five served in Canada, and nineteen outside Canada.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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LIB

Thomas Vien (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

I would draw the attention of hon. members to the fact that we are discussing section 1 of the bill, the subject of which is "definitions". So far the discussion has taken place on other sections. The only difficulty with this manner of proceeding is that the discussions will be repeated when we reach the appropriate sections. I believe we would proceed in a more orderly fashion if the discussion were confined to the section under consideration.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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NAT

Howard Charles Green

National Government

Mr. GREEN:

When we began discussing the bill the minister made a general statement, and other hon. members have been replying to him.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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LIB

Thomas Vien (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

I was not aware of that.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

Yes; and it was also understood in the committee itself that so far as possible there might be a general discussion on the first

section.

The CHAIRMAN; All right.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I suggest that in the end this procedure will save time, because it will clarify many points. Strictly speaking the chairman is right. But in a bill of this kind, where there is no enacting clause, one does not have an opportunity for general discussion. I believe it is the consensus that we should have such discussion, and by having it now we will save time later.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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LIB

Thomas Vien (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Moreover, if there has been an agreement, then the rule has been suspended by unanimous consent.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

I have read the bill carefully, and in it I do not find provision for circumstances such as those I shall now outline. I have in mind a neighbour of mine who enlisted after the beginning of this war.

He was a big, strong, healthy man and, no doubt on account of his size and physique, he was made a military policeman. In the course of his duties he was attacked and badly battered by a couple of soldiers. While being so attacked he was kicked around the chest, and his shoulder bone was broken.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

While on duty?

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

Yes, while on duty. After being in hospital for some time he was sent to another camp. Returning home on leave, he died suddenly on the day following his return. As I understand the circumstances, there is nothing in the act to provide compensation for his widow and family.

Pension Act

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

What was the disability?

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

According to information received from his family they wonder whether his death was hastened by having been kicked and beaten by a couple of soldiers. If there is any section in the act which could cover that case, I should like to have it pointed out to me when we reach it.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

I believe that under the order in council the case the hon. member has described would probably not be pensionable. In the present bill however a distinction is made between "leave with pay" and "leave without pay". If the assault arose from his service, even though he was on leave with pay, he would have a claim. If he did not have a claim under subsection 2, considered conjointly with the interpretation of "leave with pay", his case certainly could be considered under subsection 3.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

I am glad to hear that. This man died on return from Petawawa.

I have just- a brief observation to make with reference to the remarks of the hon. member for Vancouver South. I appeared before the committee and they treated me courteously and listened to a lengthy exposition from myself in favour of widows' pensions, but there is nothing in the bill in that regard. As the hon. member for Vancouver South remarked, something might be done later on under the war veterans' allowance.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

That question is still before a select committee of the house. They have not made a report with regard to it, but undoubtedly they will. In the meantime, I doubt whether it is in order to discusss the subject at this stage. Personally. I have no objection, but the matter is still before the committee.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

It is not foreclosed at the moment.

Topic:   PENSION ACT
Subtopic:   APPLICATION TO CERTAIN MEMBERS OF CANADIAN AND UNITED KINGDOM FORCES-CHANGES IN PRINCIPLE AND PROCEDURE
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May 27, 1941