March 24, 1941

LIB

James Layton Ralston (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. RALSTON:

We are not recruiting for the course. Men are enlisted, and are then sent for training.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

They are selected.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

James Layton Ralston (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. RALSTON:

We are not recruiting for the course. The men are recruiting into the army, and then taken there for training in their special trades.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

Howard Charles Green

National Government

Mr. GREEN:

Did the Minister of Labour obtain figures showing the number of men and women who have taken or are now taking industrial training, dividing the information into the four classes of priority? Perhaps the minister could also tell us what arrangements have been made for training men in shipbuilding. Then the Minister of National Defence for Naval Services might tell us whether the government has in contemplation the training of merchant seamen. The Minister of Munitions and Supply announced the other day that Canada was to build her own merchant ships. Many losses have been suffered by the British merchant marine, and it may be only a matter of time until merchant seamen may be required from Canada.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Norman Alexander McLarty (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. McLARTY:

We are doing some training of those who will be absorbed into the industry, but the industry itself is doing most of the necessary training and upgrading of its own employees. While we give basic training in the use of machines used in shipbuilding, the real training can be done only in the shipbuilding yards. I shall give the figures asked by my hon. friend as far as I have been able to obtain them, and there will be an opportunity later on to give them in a more complete form. The total number in the war emergency and youth training plans at the end of February was 11,423. Of that number, those in the industrial classes totalled 6,351.

War Appropriation Bill

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

Percy Chapman Black

National Government

Mr. BLACK (Cumberland):

Is that the number in training or those who have been trained?

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Norman Alexander McLarty (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. McLARTY:

The number in training on the last day of February. The hon. member for Vancouver South referred to the number of veterans of the last war and those who had been discharged in this war who were in training. The number in the industrial classes was 436. Perhaps I could give an indication of their ages, as follows:

16 to 19 years

1820 to 29 years

7630 to 39 years

4240 to 49 years

235Over 50 years

65

According to the ages they would seem to be practically all veterans of the last war.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

Howard Charles Green

National Government

Mr. GREEN:

How about those in the

second class, civilians over forty?

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Norman Alexander McLarty (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. McLARTY:

I have not the breakdown of civilians over forty. I have the figures of those in the war industrial classes only, as follows:

16 to 29 years-

Male 1,535

Female 121

20 to 29 years-

Male 1,936

Female 94

30 to 39 years-

Male 579

Female 13

40 to 49 years-

Male 339

Female 4

50 and over-

Male 150

Female 13

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

Howard Charles Green

National Government

Mr. GREEN:

Perhaps the Minister of

National Defence for Naval Affairs could answer my question with regard to the training of men for merchant ships?

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Angus Lewis Macdonald (Minister of National Defence for Naval Services)

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Kingston City):

This matter really does not come under the Department of National Defence for Naval Services; it belongs rather to the Department of Transport. I do not know of any plans having been made by the government for the training of men for merchant ships. The suggestion has been made that some attention should be given to the formation of manning pools in various parts of the country, so that merchant seamen may be allotted to those ships which may be short of crews.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

Percy Chapman Black

National Government

Mr. BLACK (Cumberland):

Is there any restriction on the use of wooden ships with diesel engines? This is a matter of great concern to Nova Scotia. Many of these

ships can travel just as fast as steam transports.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Angus Lewis Macdonald (Minister of National Defence for Naval Services)

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Kingston City):

I do not know that there is any restriction in the formal sense, but as far as convoy work is concerned I do not think anyone would think of using ships of wooden ship size. I doubt if anyone would think of a ship of less than 6,000, 7,000 or 10,000 tons, and with those sizes you are out of the wooden ship class. The opinion of naval men and of those engaged in merchant shipping is that for convoy work you cannot have a great number of small ships because they are as much trouble as a large ship.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

Percy Chapman Black

National Government

Mr. BLACK (Cumberland):

The controlling factor would be speed rather than size, would it not?

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Angus Lewis Macdonald (Minister of National Defence for Naval Services)

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Kingston City):

They are slow ships, generally speaking.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. GILLIS:

I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Mines and Resources (Mr. Crerar). I notice that there is an item of $147,000 under this department to provide for the detention of alien seamen who refuse to perform their regular duties in Canada. There are rumours to the effect that in some parts of Canada the reason for this refusal is the fact that the government has offered them lower rates of wages than are paid to Canadian seamen. Last summer there were some 200 French seamen off four or five French boats which had been brought into Sydney from the banks and tied up in the harbour. These men were roaming around apparently without any supervision or means of livelihood, and most of them could not speak the language of the country. Was anything done for this particular group of men? In just what way .is this $147,000 to be spent?

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Angus Lewis Macdonald (Minister of National Defence for Naval Services)

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Kingston City):

When my hon. friend says that the government offered them a lower wage than they have been receiving, that must be incorrect because the government does not operate any transatlantic steamship service, and the pay of merchant seamen is entirely a matter between the seamen and the shipping company which employs them.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. GILLIS:

These men being detained by the government, the government would have something to say with respect to their employment.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Angus Lewis Macdonald (Minister of National Defence for Naval Services)

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Kingston City):

The government would have nothing to say with respect to their employment. They were detained, I presume, for some offence under the Canada Shipping Act. The government would have nothing to say as to the rate of wages because they are not government

War Appropriation Bill

employees in the same sense that men in the navy are. The government does not operate a merchant marine service across the Atlantic.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. CRERAR:

If I might add a word to what my colleague has said, sometimes we find sailors deserting their ship when it reaches Canadian shores, and then they come under our immigration laws. We insist that they shall return to their ship, and if they do not they are taken into custody. These sailors are of many nationalities, and a great majority of them cannot be deported to their own country. Consequently they are detained in custody in Canada until they express a willingness to return to their vocation as sailors. This sum of money is to cover the necessary expenses incidental thereto.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
Permalink

March 24, 1941