March 24, 1941

NAT

Gordon Knapman Fraser

National Government

Mr. FRASER (Peterborough West):

He came from Debert.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

I wanted to ask one or two questions of the Minister of Labour; I know he can answer them promptly. I could not understand what he said this afternoon in reply to my question as to how students can be taken on at the technical schools in connection with the government's plan of training young men for work in munitions plants.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Norman Alexander McLarty (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. McLARTY:

The hon. member means, how they get admission to the schools?

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

Yes.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Norman Alexander McLarty (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. McLARTY:

As the hon. member

understands, that is a matter directed by the provinces. My understanding is that to a large extent admission is arranged directly with the particular school itself by the applicant. I assume that in some instances the applicant could be placed by application to the provincial director, but generally, no doubt, the application would be direct to the training school.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

Quite a number of

young men have come to me from time to time and have told me that they had to go to the department of labour in the legislative building.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
Permalink
LIB

Norman Alexander McLarty (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. McLARTY:

Yes. In some provinces that would be true.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

They came back with the story-I have no way of proving it; it may not be worth proving, anyway.-that they had to get a letter from somebody, and when they told me the name of the man they had to get the letter from, I knew it was no use for me to do anything in the matter. Whether what they said is a fact, I do not know. I could not pin it down. I hope that is not the situation.

War Appropriation Bill

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
Permalink
LIB

Norman Alexander McLarty (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. McLARTY:

I can assure the hon. member for Davenport that if he can give me evidence of any practice of that kind, it will, so far as I can direct it, be discontinued at once. I did not believe that any preference of that kind was being shown, and I hope that it is not true; but if it is, we will see that it is discontinued.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

The young man came back to me with this statement after being interviewed at the parliament buildings. They may have turned him down because he was not a satisfactory candidate for admission to the school, and that may have been the excuse which they gave me. I have heard the same thing in connection with the Galt school. There may not be a word of truth in it. The hon. member for Waterloo South, who, however, is not here, would probably know more than anybody else about that.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
Permalink
LIB

Norman Alexander McLarty (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. McLARTY:

The hon. member for Davenport knows that the federal government does not direct the trainee to a particular school.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

I know that, but I was just reporting what has come to me. I am not prepared to say whether it is true, nor am I pursuing the matter any further.

One other matter. A young man goes, let us say, to the central technical school at Toronto, where, if he is going to work in a munitions plant, he will probably be given some instruction in the operation of a shaper, a drill, a planer, a lathe, or all of them. I assume he receives a limited knowledge in all of them, because the school is equipped with these various machines, and has some excellent teachers. How long is the student kept at the technical school, and is he paid while in attendance?

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Norman Alexander McLarty (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. McLARTY:

Yes, Mr. Chairman. I have some information on the matter of payment. The average course of training is, I believe, three months, although it varies under some circumstances. As the hon. member for Vancouver East said this afternoon, you cannot turn out a skilled mechanic in three months, but you can train him to some extent in the use of machines. My hon.

friend mentioned, for instance, the Galt school, with which I am more familiar than I am with some of the others, because I have been through it a number of times. We try to keep definitely in contact with employers who require labour in war industries, and we endeavour also to turn out trainees in the particular course which is related to the work for which they are required. I do not think it would be fair to say that each trainee goes through the same course. Certainly that is not the situation at Galt. Some men may

go to a firm at Brantford; some are required, let us say, for the Massey-Harris company; the training they receive is largely designed for the particular work which they will be called upon to perform after the course is given.

In connection with the amounts paid to trainees, the weekly allowances to be paid by the dominion to trainees in industrial training centres and preemployment schools are as follows: Single trainees living at home shall not receive any allowance except (a) where they have given up employment to attend a class, or (fa) where there is a financial need. In such instances the maximum weekly allowance shall be $3.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

Three dollars a week?

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Norman Alexander McLarty (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. McLARTY:

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

Will the minister let me finish my one or two questions? During the afternoon the minister said that many more young men are offering themselves for these various schools than there are facilities for training them.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
Permalink
LIB

Norman Alexander McLarty (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. McLARTY:

I would say that was the present condition.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

I have been wondering whether any consideration has been given to training young men in the plants themselves. I have visited many plants, and I have in mind one very large one which is now being erected. Instead of sending a young man to the technical school at Toronto, or to any other technical school, where no place can be found for him, is there a plan whereby he can be sent direct to the plant, and the company advised that "this young man is now going to train, and we will allow the same amount for him as a trainee as he would receive in a technical school if he were attending there"?

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
Permalink
LIB

Norman Alexander McLarty (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. McLARTY:

No, Mr. Chairman; there is no provision made for any allowance for trainees in the plant schools. The term "plant schools" is perhaps a little vague. There is no question that industry is now training at a substantial rate. I gave a figure this afternoon but pointed out that it was a little

War Appropriation Bill

difficult to get a definite figure because of the different categories of the training in the various plants. For instance, one plant where I know they are training over five hundred said "we are not training any in a plant school", because they are training them in their factory. Another firm will send a list of every person in their employ as trainees even though some were there only seven days. That branch of the training plan is under the direction of Mr. Crawford, a former superintendent of technical education. He has set up a staff in the various provinces; he has visited all the industries where training would likely be carried on throughout Canada and is endeavouring to correlate the work. He advises me that the training is going on at a higher rate than estimated by the committee when it made its estimate in November last.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
Permalink
NAT

John Ritchie MacNicol

National Government

Mr. MacNICOL:

They do not receive

anything?

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
Permalink

March 24, 1941