March 20, 1941

NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

He is a first class citizen of Canada, and he took a keen interest in these matters. Will the minister say that if requisitions are sent on for A.R.P. material such as he mentions, the government will at once arrange to have it issued? So far I think it has been limited in New Brunswick to the seaport city of Saint John, though there have been some small efforts made by the city of Moncton. With these exceptions the movement has not been extended, I suppose on the theory that Hitler's submarines have not reached this side of the ocean as yet. In the city of Halifax, however, they have done a very considerable amount of work. How far is the government prepared to go towards, shall I say, underwriting the cost of this movement, or has consideration been given that point?

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

In regard to locality the department administering these moneys is governed by the recommendations of a staff committee of the Department of National Defence. In other words under our authority we cannot properly expend any of these moneys in areas other than those proclaimed to be vulnerable by the Minister of National Defence.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

That seems very sound.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

In regard to equipment, that would be a matter of experience. Any equipment that might be deemed necessary for the thorough training of these volunteers in the various subbranches of the service would be supplied by the federal government.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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CON

Norman James Macdonald Lockhart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LOCKHART:

Would the minister be good enough to give us a break-down of the $250,000 which is being supplied the provinces under this estimate?

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

It has not been broken down at all; it is purely an estimate. I can give my hon. friend the amounts spent in the various provinces up to date, if that would answer his question.

War Appropriation Bill

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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CON

Norman James Macdonald Lockhart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LOCKHART:

Yes, and how the last appropriation was spent.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

It will not be exactly limited to the last appropriation, for this reason: a governor general's warrant was obtained at the very outset of the war, and some of those moneys were used for the purpose of obtaining emergency equipment, before we got any moneys from the war appropriation of last year. As I said, there were grants made of $5,000 each to Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Ontario and British Columbia, and $10,000 to Quebec, and $5,000 to the St. John ambulance corps. Printing and stationery, head office, $4,551; this was for sending out these pamphlets and booklets. The amount spent in Ontario for printing and stationery was $1,648.50. For further books of instruction we spent at headquarters $1,410.20. Films cost $298.87. Then the travelling expenses of federal officers all across Canada amounted to S4.037.77.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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CON

Norman James Macdonald Lockhart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LOCKHART:

May I ask how many federal officers?

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

Just the two I mentioned a moment ago. Incidentals, freight, express and so on, $2,812.42; supplies, head office and Plaza stores, $32,516. That is for the various types of equipment specified. The supplies by provinces were as follows:

Nova Scotia $ 8,149

New Brunswick 7,064

Quebec 15,408

Ontario 42,577

British Columbia 15,048

Federal district 5,019

That makes a total of $126,185 for supplies; and with the other items with which I began my reply the total is $175,943.82.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

Gordon Knapman Fraser

National Government

Mr. FRASER (Peterborough West):

I

should like to ask the minister if the women's auxiliary corps throughout the country have been used in connection with this work. In the city of Peterborough they have a women's auxiliary corps with over two hundred members. They have been training for over six months. They have taken a course covering the St. John ambulance corps first aid course; they have had lectures on anti-gas work, and they have been helped by the officers of the training camp there. "A" company have had military training, under an officer, in army office work and correspondence. "B" company have had training in map reading, and later on they are going to take up motor mechanics. "C" company have had lectures under Doctor Clarke, medical officer of health of Peterborough, id sanitation, and is now taking an advanced course in first aid under St. John

ambulance corps officers. "D" company have completed a course in dietetics, and in another week they go into canteen work. Could these women be used in that work? Yesterday the hon. member for Lake Centre asked the Minister of National War Services a question on this point. These Peterborough women are anxious to get into war work and do what they can to help win the war.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Ian Alistair Mackenzie (Minister of Pensions and National Health)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):

Many women are now being used in connection with these services. The information I have before me, which was compiled about two weeks ago, shows that there were at that time in Canada about 65,000 registered volunteer air raid precaution workers. Of these, 1,438 were doctors and 3,119 nurses. Of the others many thousands had then completed their training in first-aid during the year 1940. The department has now a record of almost 38,658 first-aid certificates issued by the St. John Ambulance Association in 1940 to those who have completed their training. Those certificates were not all for individuals at the time enrolled in A.R.P. work, but a large majority will be eventually. In addition about 22 new divisions of the St. John ambulance brigade have been formed, the majority of them in Ontario. More than 23,000 persons have received training in order that they may be qualified to serve as air raid wardens, and approximately 4,000 volunteer firemen were taking training. More than 2,700 persons were trained in mobile squads to assist the police in preventing any disorder or looting at the time of a crisis.

The answer, then, is that many women are now being employed in the rendering of most excellent services. I do not think any organization, as such, could probably be used in this work. But probably many of the members referred to in the question of the hon. member are now rendering excellent services.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Daniel (Dan) McIvor

Liberal

Mr. McIVOR:

Mr. Chairman, I rise to give expression to one or two thoughts which have been passing through my mind, and which I am sure have been in the minds of persons in this house and outside it, with regard to the patience of the government in answering questions as to details. I am just wondering when there is going to be a limit.

I shall give a concrete example of courteous procedure in the furnishing of details. A young man who trained in Toronto and took an eight-weeks' course interviewed the hon. member for Weyburn, asking why he did not have a job. In Fort William I was interviewed by a young man who came from the west, and who wondered why he did not have a job. He had had ten months' training in an aeroplane factory, and thought he

War Appropriation Bill

should have obtained a job at the expiration of that training. I believe he showed wisdom in approaching the local member, because a local member in a constituency should be able to answer questions of that kind, settle difficulties, or give direction as to where an answer can be obtained. I told him what to do, and said that if he did not get redress he might come back to see me. But the reason he was not employed was that he was a Chinaman.

I appreciate very much the fact that the Minister of Labour is keeping in motion the machinery set up by the late Hon. Norman Rogers, at one time Minister of Labour, who did good work in connection with the youth training plan. The present minister is keeping the machinery oiled in such a way that it is functioning in a splendid fashion throughout Canada. So well does it function that with the exception of one person a whole class has come in from a western city for employment in another place.

I have risen to speak because I am wondering when this debate is going to close. So far it has reached only the resolution stage, and the legislation must still be considered on second reading and in committee of the whole. When is this debate going to close? When you and I hear over the radio and read in our newspapers what happened in London last night, when we know that they are being shot at and bombed to pieces, and when we know that the people of the United States are stepping on the gas-and I use that expression advisedly-because they see the need, and realize what the democracies of the world are facing, why should it take so long for us to pass this measure? Why is it that congress can pass a bill in four days which involves seven billions of dollars, and we cannot pass this resolution, even after two weeks of discussion? I suggest we should have a little more regard to what is happening, that we should get this resolution through and let the Minister of Finance get on with his work. I suggest that we do this so that we may tell the United States and the world that we mean business, and that we are going out to support the allies in the winning of this war.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

Gordon Graydon

National Government

Mr. GRAYDON:

Mr. Chairman, I rise to make some comments with respect to the statements made by the previous speaker. He is a gentleman, and a member for whom I have perhaps as high regard as I have for anyone in the House of Commons. I hesitate even to correct some of the thoughts which he said were drifting through his mind and which obligated him to speak this afternoon.

May I point out-and I do this in a sense of fairness, and I believe in a constructive way

that if we are looking for the persons responsible for the circuitous manner in which this debate has been conducted, for the delay and for the lack of continuity, I believe that entire responsibility can be placed upon the government, not upon the opposition or upon those of whom the hon. member for Fort William has spoken.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Joseph-Arthur Bradette

Liberal

Mr. BRADETTE:

That is not what the public thinks.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

Gordon Graydon

National Government

Mr. GRAYDON:

May I point out-

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Joseph-Arthur Bradette

Liberal

Mr. BRADETTE:

The public knows better than that.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

Gordon Graydon

National Government

Mr. GRAYDON:

Before my hon. friends become too caustic they might better reserve their judgment, because I am going to say something with which they will agree.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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LIB

Vincent Dupuis

Liberal

Mr. DUPUIS:

We want to say it is not so.

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
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NAT

Gordon Graydon

National Government

Mr. GRAYDON:

In the first place hon. members will want to speak themselves, and at such time I shall be glad to listen.

When the debate on the resolution in committee began, most of us wondered how the government was going to conduct the debate. It was not until March 13 of this year that we finally got the war-time estimates from the government. In times of peace we have always followed the course which we thought would expedite debate, namely, that of discussing estimates department by department. Had the government done what has always been done in peace time; had it handled its present war-time estimates department by department instead of having all the war ministers as well as other members of the cabinet sitting here day after day, the results would have been much better. Had the estimates been brought down department by department there would have been no need for the attendance of more than one minister of the crown at any time. Ministers would have been saved the time they spent sitting in the house, away from their departmental duties, and in addition there would have been some continuity of effort in the debate. For that reason I suggest that when the discussion

Topic:   WAR APPROPRIATION BILL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR GRANTING TO HIS MAJESTY AID FOR NATIONAL DEFENCE AND SECURITY
Permalink

March 20, 1941