proposed incorporation into this international treaty of the diversion of waters from northern Ontario. The editorial continues:
This newspaper has always maintained that the north's water powers and streams belonged to us up here and should be conserved. The very politicians and other orators who paint such glowing pictures of the future of Canada's north show by their attitude on this matter of water powers that they lack the conviction which should fortify their utterances. If we are going to have prosperous industrial centres and sound agricultural development adapted to the tempering climate, in the future so raptly envisioned, why are we now alienating the potential water powers that would be a necessity to ensure that future?
Alienating. for the present? No, not if the international treaty applies. But as a matter of fact they will be alienated forever, because, as the government well knows, the United States congress would never permit the stoppage of the flow of these waters once they were diverted. Why? What effect have they on the waters of the great lakes? They have none at present because Chicago is taking so .much extra water, but if Chicago can ever be stopped from robbing the waters of the great lakes, once you have .plants established all along the great lakes, riparian rights will be established alongside the harbours of the lower lakes and rivers based on the water levels thus established and the United States could never be prevailed upon to permit the stoppage of the flow of that water.
I do hope that the Prime Minister, if he feels this is necessary for the sake of peace between the government of Ontario and the government of Canada for the duration of the war, will see to it that a clause is put into the agreement providing that when the war ceases the diversion also shall cease and the water shall thenceforth belong to northern Ontario.
Diversion is being denounced everywhere. It is being denounced in congress and throughout the United States by their leading men. At the present time Chicago is again proposing to submit a bill to congress to ask for the diversion of more water. I am thoroughly familiar with the situation in Chicago. They find it perhaps more difficult than any other great city in the world to obtain the water supply required to take care of their domestic sanitary problems. While I am wholly opposed to their diversions I cannot wholly blame them. While I oppose them, I admit that they have the right to go after more diversions.
On January 13 of this year a meeting was held in Detroit of the Great Lakes Carriers' association, which was attended by the engineers of various great cities such as Milwaukee
and others along the shores of the great lakes. The secretary of the association, Mr. R. F. Malia, said this:
The state of Illinois intends asking .the supreme court on Monday to amend the decree handed down in 1930 restricting the Chicago diversion.
The report goes on to say:
Mr. Malia stated Illinois was expected to ask the supreme court .to permit the diversion of lake Michigan water to be increased from 1,500 cubic second feet to 5,000 cubic second feet.
That is exactly the amount that is going to be poured into lake Superior and finally into lake Huron and lake Michigan, and away would go our water at once, just as I predicted it would, if these diversions were allowed to take place. I have not the slightest doubt that the United States congress will in due course accede to the request of Chicago and the state of Illinois. They have their ears tuned to the political winds just as we have here, and had the Prime Minister not happened to have his ear attuned to the political winds in Canada I do not believe he would have tolerated these diversions for one second. But he was in a tight corner. The works for one of them had already been completed before they got the necessary permission. Just fancy a provincial government committing an act like that in violation of an international treaty without the consent of this government! But the provincial government proceeded to erect works on the Kenog-ami river, fourteen miles north of Long lake, cut through the height of land and constructed a canal through the international watershed, in spite of the opposition of this government. When these works were completed and $2,000,000 had been spent on them, they finally got the consent of this government to proceed and let the water flow. I would not have given my consent. I would have let those works rot until kingdom come before I would have allowed an international agreement to be set at naught.
The very same thing is going to happen again with the Ogoki river. I only wish I had the power or strength or knew what I could do to arouse public opinion in this matter-particularly in northern Ontario, Mr. Chairman, which is going to be the great loser; for a large volume of potential power on this river will be lost forever to northern Ontario. I have been trying my best, I frankly admit, to stir up Saskatchewan and Manitoba, but I have not yet made any headway. They have some interest in the matter because they have a great port on Hudson bay, the port of Churchill. I have been there and I predict that some day it will
be a great port. I do not know whether the diversion of water from Hudson bay will affect it or not, but the late Captain Bernier, in a letter from which I quoted last session, was of the opinion that it might. I have communicated with the engineers and the ministers of public works of Saskatchewan and Manitoba but I have not been able to get them to move yet. Manitoba and Saskatchewan should send delegations down here to protest against the inclusion in this agreement of anything that might at any time affect the levels of Hudson bay. I do not know that the levels would be affected. I have read an article that said that such a suggestion was silly. I am not engineer enough to know whether it is silly or not, but Captain Bernier was a great authority and I am prepared to take his word. He made some strong statements about the water levels of Hudson bay. He is dead and gone, but he was a very great engineer and sailor, and did a great deal for Canada. In my opinion he should have been knighted. He never received the recognition he deserved.
Now, let us review the position. Starting in the east, on the St. Croix river, at Grand Falls, or Sprague's falls, as it is sometimes called, there is a dam across the river at the international boundary, and the whole flow of the St. Croix river is now taken through the state of Maine and poured back into the river a little further down. That may be under an agreement between the province of New Brunswick and the government of the state of Maine; I do not know. But the fact which stands out is that the whole of the river goes through the state of Maine to be used for power purposes. Then, on the St. Lawrence river, the southern branch just east 'and south of Cornwall, as the Prime Minister knows,
25,000 second feet of water are diverted out of that river down to Massena, down the Grass river, and back into the St. Lawrence, in open defiance of the Ashburton-Webster treaty and our own international joint agreement. That condition was to last only until the end of the last war. The last war ended in 1918, and that water is diverted just as freely to-day as it flowed in 1918; we cannot stop it.
At the other end of the line, Chicago has taken 10,000 second feet. I do not know whether that has been reduced recently, but that is the amount they were allowed, and according to the article I read, application is to be made to take more than the 1,500 cubic second feet allowed by the supreme court.
I wish I could impress sufficiently upon the Prime Minister that when this treaty comes up again, whatever we are compelled to-day to do
for the so-called production of power, these points should be seriously examined. I do not believe the argument about power production. Just a short time ago the hydroelectric commission issued a statement that they have ample reserves of power; and surely to goodness 80,000 horse-power will not have any great effect on the production of munitions, particularly when they must have had more reserves of power than that.
Finally, to come back to where I began, if the diversion of the Kenogami river and the Ogoki river, two tributaries of the Albany, comes under the jurisdiction of the Boundary Waters treaty, the flow could never be stopped without the consent of the United States congress. That means that from lake Superior to James bay there would be a corridor right across northern Ontario over which we would have surrendered our sovereignty as far as the absolute control of our water goes, and as to which we would be subject to the consent of the government of the country to the south. I have not a word other than the kindest to say of the government of the United States. In that country we have the best neighbours in the world; we should thank God for such neighbours. But that fact would never induce me to surrender any sovereignty which this country has. It may be that water has to be poured into the great lakes, but that is not my opinion, because I believe that if the Warren report of 1921 and the report of the engineering board of review of 1920 were carried out at Niagara Falls, there would be ample water on both sides of the river. The reports state that we both can take 10,000 second feet, and the level of lake Erie would be raised as it should be, and the building of the proposed works in the Niagara river would likely not cost more than is going to be squandered in northern Ontario.
We are told that those commitments will cost $3,000,000, but having in mind what the Chippewa canal cost as compared with what we were told it would cost, and having in mind also the disparity between the estimated and the actual cost of the Kenogami works, I have not the slightest doubt that the cost of the northern Ontario works will be many millions more than we are told it will be. And that expenditure it is proposed to make in war time. Those bon. members who come from the west via the Canadian National railways passed recently the station of Ferland, north of lake Michigan. What did they see there? They saw large piles of equipment and numbers of men going up to build a railway and construction works to take material up to Wa-boose falls, on the Ogoki river; and this in war time, when men are needed in much more