December 4, 1940

LIB

James Joseph McCann

Liberal

Mr. McCANN:

But not in the same quantity. It takes twenty times as much tomato juice to give the same quantity of vitamins.

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

My hon. friend is an expert, of course, but I think I would rather page another expert before I would be quite willing to accept that statement. However, that is a suggestion which I throw out in passing; I am not at all certain of my ground, nor do I believe my hon. friend is certain either.

I have already given my views on the matter of extending our sales to hard-currency countries, and I need not go over that field again. Something should be said, and I think I should say it now, with respect to the second part of the proposals, the extension of the British preference. The * schedules in connection with the extension of the British preference are extremely wide, and I am certain that we do not know all the implications. I should like to ask the minister a question just from the point of view of revenue. I understand that the government is not putting forward this proposal on the basis of revenue at all, nor do I think it should be put on that basis. If there is any man in this house who wants to help Britain win the war, it is your humble servant, and as far as I am concerned, I am willing to make any sacrifices that I may be called upon to make to further that end. But it is a problem that the government must keep in mind, because if we lose certain revenues from one source we have to make them up from another. The minister did not attempt to give us any estimate of the loss of revenue. I should like to ask this, though: Has he looked into the question of loss of employment that may be occasioned by some of these proposals?

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

It is not anticipated that there will be any loss of employment.

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Has the

minister gone into the matter with any degree of particularity?

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Pretty well.

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

let me

bring it home to him. In my county there is a cotton mill. There are three in New Brunswick. Two towns are dependent for their very existence on the operation of the mill in my county. Prior to the outbreak of war, these mills were running only three days a week; the operatives were living on a standard of existence that was below the border line. The war broke out; substantial

War Budget-Mr. Hanson (York-Sunbury)

orders were given; the mills ran on full time and on overtime for a long period. The war orders are now practically all filled, except in connection with those mills equipped to make cotton and wool goods. That is not the situation with the mills at Milltown or the mill at Marysville. The number of days worked per week has been steadily dropping since they filled their war orders. How is this going to affect them? I must ask myself that question, naturally, because it will be put to me by the first man or woman from the town of Marysville that I meet on the street.

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Let me put it in just a word. The cost of production of cotton textiles in England is estimated to be up about 43 per cent, and therefore the price that will be charged for cotton textiles is so much higher than it would be under normal circumstances that the cotton industry of Canada does not require the very moderate protection it has had in the past.

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I am glad to hear the minister say that the protection is very moderate, because during all the years I have been in this house and for longer than that-

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

I mean it is very moderate as against Great Britain.

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

It is very moderate as against Great Britain; I agree with that, but even then I have heard mutter-ings about it. Let us analyse the minister's statement. The cost of the raw cotton is the same to them and to us, and that is the big item.

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. CRERAR:

It costs them more.

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I am

speaking about the raw cotton at -the point of production; that cost is the same.

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. CRERAR:

That is what I am speaking about.

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

No; the

hon. member is not speaking about -the same thing. He is speaking about the cost of the cotton landed. Of course it costs more in Great Britain, the carriage and the exchange have to be added, and it has to be paid for in a depreciated currency. We are in exactly the same position, but to a lesser degree; but the cost of raw cotton at Savannah or Atlanta -or any other big cotton market is exactly the same to Britain as it is to us, so there is no distinction at all. Of course there is the cost of carriage in war time and the cost of war insurance to England; but it must be borne in mind that this carriage is nearly all by water. As against that, ours is rail

carriage every mile of the way from Atlanta, Georgia, to Fredericton. I have often wondered why it was not brought in by water, but that has never been done. It comes up via Chicago; the freight is substantial, and it has to be paid in United States currency.

I have not had time to make any comparison, but I suggest to the minister -that altogether aside from the question of the difference in exchange, the cost of transportation is against Canada qua -the United Kingdom. I may be wrong in that, but that is the theory I have in mind, and I have given my reasons for it. There is the question of the adverse exchange. Undoubtedly on a pound of cotton -the amount allotted for exchange by the British converter will be slightly greater than the loss sustained by the Canadian converter, but the amount per pound or per yard of material will be so small as to be almost infinitesimal.

Then there is the cost -of conversion. I have always understood, and in this I think I am borne out by those who know, that the cost of converting co-tton goods in England is less than it is in Canada. How in the world, then, can the minister make the statement that there has been a rise of 48 per cent in the cost of production in England, without taking into account the fact that there must have been a rise in -the cost of production here as well?

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

I am informed that there has been an increase of 43 per cent, not 48 per cent, in the cost of production of cotton textiles in England. The hon. gentleman must not forget those two Atlantic trips.

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I quite

agree that there is an ocean trip involved.

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Two of them.

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

But I

would also point out to the minister that goods shipped to Canada come in ships that are seeking cargoes. The whole trend of commerce is from west to east; the heavy cargoes are going from Canada to the United Kingdom, and in some instances the ships are coming back not filled. The same thing will apply to coal. If British bituminous coal is coming to this country, I venture to say that it will come as ballast, bearing the very lowest rate. I would ask the minister to investigate that. It will not bear a commodity rate unless it comes in full shipload lots. I do not know what the situation is in Saint John this year, because the condition has been erratic, but for a long period of years most of the coal that has come to that city, most of the British anthracite which I myself burn, has come in as ballast, bearing the lowest possible freight rate.

656 COMMONS

War Budget-Mr. Hanson (York-Sunbury)

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Can the hon. gentleman suggest anything we can do for England?

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Oh, yes; I can suggest a number of things we can do for England and I am willing to go the whole way on cottons. I am only asking the minister if he has thought the thing through. I am glad to know that this provision is only for the duration of the war. Certainly I could think of things to do for England. I would buy some woollens from her, and would thereby do something for the woollen trade in England. That has not been thought of.

Topic:   WAR BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON PROPOSALS OF MINISTER OF FINANCE FOR CONSERVATION OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE
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December 4, 1940