August 6, 1940

LIB

Manley Justin Edwards

Liberal

Mr. EDWARDS:

Are the judges or any

other employees of the government who are not civil servants in a position to avail them-* selves of the provisions of that act?

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

The judges are not.

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
LIB

Manley Justin Edwards

Liberal

Mr. EDWARDS:

Or any other employees

of the government?

Supply-Auditor General's Office

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
NAT

Karl Kenneth Homuth

National Government

Mr. HOMUTH:

Not those in similar positions.

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Vien (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. VIEN:

But it must be remembered

that in the Judges' Act there is a superannuation provision different from the Civil Service Superannuation Act.

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
NAT

Karl Kenneth Homuth

National Government

Mr. HOMUTH:

But they have not a

choice of coming under the Judges' Act or the Civil Service Superannuation Act.

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Vien (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. VIEN:

The auditor general, not being a judge, had no choice but to take advantage of the superannuation act, of which the judges cannot avail themselves. They have an act of their own.

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Bruce McNevin

Liberal

Mr. McNEVIN:

I move, in amendment, that the amount of SI,500, as annuity for the former auditor general, be reduced to one dollar.

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
NAT

Grote Stirling

National Government

Mr. STIRLING:

Are there any other

instances of retiring employees, who under the superannuation act have paid into this fund of superannuation, having been paid additional amounts to augment the amount of their pensions?

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

I do not know about that.

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
LIB

Robert Ryan

Liberal

Mr. RYAN:

I do not know anything about the agreement made with Mr. Gonthier, but I am very well acquainted with him. I knew what he was doing in Montreal as an auditor, when he was appointed by the government. I have known this man for years, and I am confident that if he had not thought he was being appointed for life he would never have accepted the position. I knew him well enough to know what he was earning in Montreal. He would never have taken a position where the government at any time could discharge him. I believe that this amount of $1,500 ought to be paid, in justice to this man, because I firmly believe he held the position with the thought that he had been appointed for life.

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
?

An hon. MEMBER:

Appointed at a salary of $7,000, and that salary continued for several years.

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
LIB

Robert Ryan

Liberal

Mr. RYAN:

I believe firmly that Mr. Gonthier would not have accepted a position as Auditor General of Canada for $7,000 a year, because he was earning much more than that.

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
NAT

Karl Kenneth Homuth

National Government

Mr. HOMUTH:

Then why did he accept the position?

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
NAT

Arza Clair Casselman (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Progressive Conservative Party; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

National Government

Mr. CASSELMAN (Grenville-Dundas):

In order to have the record straight, on July 17, 1940, this question was asked in the House of Commons:

Have any other retired employees, under the superannuation act, been voted additional amounts?

The answer to that question was, no. That means that this vote we are now asked to pass to-night places this man in a position different from that of any other man who has ever been in the employ of the government of Canada and comes within the provisions of the superannuation act.

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

The ordinary person appointed to the civil service of Canada is appointed during pleasure.

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
NAT

Karl Kenneth Homuth

National Government

Mr. HOMUTH:

What is there so extraordinary about this appointment?

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

He was appointed during good behaviour.

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
CON

Joseph Henry Harris

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HARRIS (Danforth):

What is the difference between appointment during pleasure and appointment during good behaviour?

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink
LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

There is all the difference in the world. I will tell hon. members the difference, and illustrate by the experience of governments in England. One of the Stuart kings dismissed twelve judges because they were appointed during pleasure. He dismissed them because they gave judgments which did not appeal to him.

Topic:   PRISONERS OF WAR
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   $7,000.
Permalink

August 6, 1940