Mr. MacNICOL:

Should not the staff be

more or less reduced in view of the fact that we cannot deal at all now with many countries where we formerly had trade commissioners? Work in the main office would be greatly reduced too, so instead of the staff being increased, I imagine it should be reduced.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

What is the policy of the department with respect to salaries of trade commissioners who have enlisted? I have in mind a gentleman who was in Glasgow, attached to the trade commissioner's office there as junior trade commissioner. He was home on furlough, and immediately war broke out he offered his services, and is now commanding a battery.

Either he has proceeded overseas or he is about to proceed overseas. How is that young man being treated in the matter of salary? What is the policy as to paying salaries of civil servants who have enlisted and have gone or are going overseas in the Canadian active service force?

Mr. MacKINNON (Edmonton West):

I

have not discussed that matter either in council or with the officials of the department. At the present time the situation confronting our trade commissioners is grave. Many of them were in countries of northern Europe which have recently been overrun. Their work has ceased because they have had to leave the cities and the countries where they were located. The whole matter is under consideration by the department.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Of course they ought to be withdrawn, brought home and given some useful work in some other sphere of activity in the government service. This question of the treatment of civil servants who have enlisted and become a part of the Canadian active service force is an important one. These men must be treated fairly; they have shown great loyalty, and I for one would be prepared to be generous. I hope the minister feels the same way about the matter. I think we should have some definite statement of policy on the part of the government, because I have no doubt that many such cases will arise. Of course a policy should have been established long ago. I am just a little astonished that the minister has not met this question before. All the big companies in this country have had to deal with this question, and they have laid down policies which, with respect to permanent men, if I may so term them, have been generous. Men who are temporary employees fall of course into another category; but these officials were appointed by the civil service commission after a rigid examination; they needed a high standing before they could make the grade to become trade commissioners, and all of them have family responsibilities. I hope the minister will treat them generously, and that, when his estimates come up again for consideration, he will be able to tell us just what is being done in cases of this kind.

Mr. MacKINNON (Edmonton West):

I should be glad to do that. It might be dealt with under the item relating to trade commissioners.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

It is understood that we can then discuss this matter?

Mr. MacKINNON (Edmonton West):

Yes.

Mr. ROSS (St. Paul's):

Does the minister care to give any statement with respect to

Supply-T rade-Administration

the policy of the Department of Trade and Commerce? Markets have been lost in several countries of Europe, and we shall have to work pretty hard to make up for those losses. It is important that we maintain our trade balance. It might be interesting under this item to have some statement of policy, because I do not know when we shall have an opportunity of again discussing the subject.

Mr. MacKINNON (Edmonton West):

I think there will be ample opportunity under later items for the hon. member for St. Paul's to speak particularly on that matter.

Mr. ROSS (St. Paul's):

This relates to administration, and it seems to me that the question of policy in the department could quite properly be dealt with by the minister under this item. It would perhaps facilitate the discussion of other items if we had some idea of what the policy was to be along the lines which I have just mentioned. I do not think that is too much to ask. I know that all hon. members are interested.

Mr. MacKINNON (Edmonton West):

At the present time it will obviously and necessarily be the duty of the department to seek in every place new avenues of trade. Nobody knows better than the hon. member for St. Paul's the state of the world at present and the fact that our markets in many countries are contracted and contracting very sharply. I am quite aware that this condition necessitates as far as possible finding new markets on this continent and elsewhere. The matter has been discussed in the department, and every effort will be made to increase our trade so as to compensate us for what has been lost.

Mr. PERLEY:

I believe it has usually

been the custom on this first item for the minister to state under what item we shall have an opportunity of discussing the question of marketing generally, and particularly pertaining to grain. According to the wording of the item I do not find that there is any item under which that question can properly be taken up. I believe in previous years it was the custom of the minister to state, upon the item we are now discussing, under what item we should have an opportunity of a general discussion on marketing.

Mr. MacKINNON (Edmonton West):

I

anticipated that the hon. member for Qu'Appelle and other hon. members would have an opportunity for discussing this matter under the item relating to the board of grain commissioner's, or dealing with the Canada Grain Act.

Mr. ROSS (St. Paul's):

There are other matters besides grain to be discussed. The Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Michaud) smiles: probably fish will enter into the discussion.

There is a matter of importance which concerns not only rural Ontario but the urban population as well. The minister knows that a prohibition has been put upon the export of canned tomatoes to Great Britain. That is going to affect a great many people. Certain other items are also affected. What are the possibilities of marketing, not only canned tomatoes, but peaches? It seems to me that it is only right that the growers of these various articles should know something about their position. I have no doubt that the canners are advising the growers at the present time with respect to tomatoes. I know that has been done in some directions; but I think it should be generally known, or before long we shall have a big crop of tomatoes from Ontario and no place .to sell them. There are other problems, for instance the export of apples. We should have some general idea of the possibilities of marketing and what action the government are taking, what real efforts they are putting forward to replace the markets which we have lost and other markets which probably we shall lose.

I do not. criticize the amount of these estimates. I know the department is efficient, and possibly it might be important under conditions prevailing to-day to have a larger appropriation so that a real effort could be made to establish other markets for the things of which I have spoken. I suggest it would be well for the minister to give the committee a general idea of the policy which the government have formulated with respect to these matters at the present time.

Mr. MacKINNON (Edmonton West):

At the present moment the department is dealing not with a theory but with an actual fact, the fact of disappearing markets. Restrictions are being raised against imports from Canada in nearly all our sister dominions and in other parts of the world, and all I can say is that the department is fully aware of the situation and is taking every step possible in the meantime to urge that the restrictions be relaxed. We are doing this through our trade commissioners in the sister dominions and through the high commissioner in London as well as in other ways.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

The minister is new to the department and I appreciate the circumstances under which he is -labouring. The withdrawal of these markets must be a staggering blow to the department, and a great embarrassment. Perhaps this discussion will serve as a notice to the minister that at a later date we shall expect from him a statement of policy as to what is going to be done to replace the disappearing markets.

May I advert to a matter that is nearly five years old. Prior to leaving the department I had it in mind that in the then succeeding

Supply-Trade-Administration

estimates there would be an appropriation looking to the extension of markets for potatoes from the martime provinces in South America and in Central America. Unfortunately we were defeated and the then government went out of otfice. In New Brunswick the provincial minister of agriculture is a trained agriculturist; there is no one who is more familiar with the necessity of extending our markets for the one big agricultural product of New Brunswick, namely, potatoes. I told him, in a conference which he was good enough to hold with me, exactly what I had in mind, namely, that I would ask parliament to grant the sum of S25,000 for the extension of markets for these products of the maritimes, fish and potatoes, in the southern countries, and that I felt certain that if they would make the necessary representations to the incoming minister, who was well known to me, he would cooperate with the provincial government in that regard. I even went to the trouble of dictating and signing a letter to the minister's immediate predecessor, which he was to take to Ottawa and which he could use. I assume that he used it. I never heard anything more about it afterwards, because I went away for the winter. The letter asked the government to cooperate with the provincial department with a view to extending markets for New Brunswick potatoes and fish. If I remember rightly, the minister told me subsequently that he had an interview with the then Minister of Trade and Commerce but that there was no result. That was a great pity. It was not for the benefit of New Brunswick alone; it was for the three maritime provinces; and the intention was that the government of Canada should assist the government of New Brunswick and the governments of the other maritime provinces, if they came into the scheme, in extending markets for these two staple products of the maritimes.

The government of New Brunswick went on with the scheme in a limited way. They have had a man, whom we had in the provincial government prior to 1935, visiting South America annually, and he has been a good salesman, having been instrumental in getting very substantial orders. But the whole situation has not been thoroughly surveyed, and I would ask the minister to be good enough to look into it again. Perhaps in the supplementary estimates he can do something. The Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Michaud) knows what I am talking about, and I am astonished that he has not done anything in the five years that he has been in office. I am not finding fault with him, because he has not done much about anything.

Mr. MICHAUD:

The hon. member must

have been sleeping in the last five years.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

No: I

have been watching. I know he has been drawing salary, but that is about all. I am suggesting to the present Minister of Trade and Commerce that he look sympathetically into this question of extending markets for the two primary products of the maritime provinces, and that he give warm and sympathetic cooperation to the departments of agriculture in the provinces of New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia, with a view to extending our markets, particularly for seed potatoes, in the southern republics of Central America and in the West Indies-and I particularly commend the market in Cuba. I understand that the Canada-West Indies trade treaty is presently up for consideration and review. I appreciate the difficulties the minister may run into in trying to extend the market for our potatoes in Cuba, having regard to the obligations which we have incurred under the treaty in question with respect to the preference for sugar in our markets. The matter is a difficult one, but I suggest to the minister that the Cuban market for potatoes in any normal time is better than all the rest of those markets put together. I hope he will give consideration to the plea I now make for cooperation between his department and the province of New Brunswick with respect to this outlet for these two staple commodities. New Brunswick has not the money available to make any lavish expenditures in extending markets, and I think this government ought to do something about the matter. They will be entitled to all the commendation, all the laurels coming to them, if they can accomplish something in this direction.

Mr. CRERAR:

We are anxious to get

another department in to-night; therefore, I should like this item to stand.

Item stands.